5 ms·

It's ridiculous that the author doesn't even consider that her taking prescribed Wellbutrin (and possibly other medicines) could have led to this. I'm quite sur

by joesmo 13y ago

It's ridiculous that the author doesn't even consider that her taking prescribed Wellbutrin (and possibly other medicines) could have led to this. I'm quite sure such "anti-depressants" (what a misnomer) had a lot more to do with the suicide than anything Penn or any other institution or individual could possibly have. Of course, this is an extremely unpopular opinion, though based on medical cases and evidence, in our culture which sees drugs as the solution to all mental problems.

mikestew 13y ago
I took Wellbutrin back when it was popular to prescribe as an aid to get off nicotine. OMG, what horrible stuff (for me, anyway). I wasn't ready to stick a shotgun in my mouth or anything, but it gave me a severe case of what a friend called "the fuckits". Didn't care about anything (including the consumption of nicotine). I would have been content to sit and do nothing. One day when I had some from free time and the house to myself, I decided to go for a motorcycle ride down some twisty road. Got a few miles down the road and decided I didn't care about going for a motorcycle ride. Considering that one of the reasons I moved next to the Appalachian Mountains was for the fantastic motorcycle riding, that was a strong enough signal that I quit taking the stuff. Now that's anecdotal, and your mileage most certainly may vary, but I now understand how a mis-diagnosis and an inappropriate prescription can cause problems.
- a8da6b0c91d 13y ago
  It's interesting that very safe chemicals like tianeptine and phenibut are not approved and used clinically in America, as they are in other countries. Instead much more profitable chemicals with known dangers are used.
gliese1337 13y ago
I don't know anything about Wellbutrin in particular, so it's entirely possible that its effects are very different from what I'm aware of and that it won't fit this pattern, but in my experience it is always important that people who are just starting anti-depressants or are switching anti-depressants have extra support and people looking out for them during the transition period; this isn't because anti-depressants don't work, it's because they take time to gain full effectiveness. A typical pattern is that patients will start to feel empowered and motivated to do something about their situation before they start to feel happy- as a result, "doing something about their situation" frequently means "trying to end it through suicide". The medication is working just fine, it's just not up to full effectiveness, and needs to be given time to get the patient through the transition period to where they stop wanting to kill themselves. (Source: several friends with clinical depression who have gone through this, plus a wife who recently completed a semester working as a psychiatric student nurse.)
jarrett 13y ago
> I'm quite sure such "anti-depressants" (what a misnomer) had a lot more to do with the suicide than anything Penn or any other institution or individual could possibly have. Are you basing this claim on the following study? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bupropion#cite_note-FDA-43 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bupropion#cite_note-FDA-43 I'm not taking a stand on whether that study's conclusions are correct or incorrect. I'm just seeking to clarify how you reached your conclusion. Regarding that study, Wikipedia states that "Considered in isolation, [Wellbutrin] was not statistically different from placebo." Again, I won't judge the accuracy of Wikipedia's statement. I just wanted to point it out.
- joesmo 13y ago
  I'm basing it on the black box warning, personal experience, and the review of various patient cases both in person and (less so) anecdotal evidence online. FDA Warning (partial) (http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Section=About_Medications&template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=7388 http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Section=About_Medications&t...): "In short-term studies, antidepressants increased the risk of suicidality in children, adolescents, and young adults when compared to placebo. Short-term studies did not show an increase in the risk of suicidality with antidepressants compared to placebo in adults beyond age 24. Adults age 65 and older taking antidepressants have a decreased risk of suicidality."
  - daeken 13y ago
    Antidepressants don't make people have suicidal thoughts. They give people just enough energy and ability to execute on plans, which sometimes include suicide.
glenntnorton 13y ago
Agreed. I've been on AD's for over ten years and everyone has to find what works for them. It's not magic. You have to do your homework (if you are in a position to. Some folks aren't). What works for me is Lexapro. I switched to Zoloft 6 months ago because I believe you have to try other options and it was a very ugly, dark time. Just switched back to the Lexapro and I feel great. What works for one doesn't work for the other.

by joesmo 13y ago

mikestew 13y ago

I took Wellbutrin back when it was popular to prescribe as an aid to get off nicotine. OMG, what horrible stuff (for me, anyway). I wasn't ready to stick a shotgun in my mouth or anything, but it gave me a severe case of what a friend called "the fuckits". Didn't care about anything (including the consumption of nicotine). I would have been content to sit and do nothing. One day when I had some from free time and the house to myself, I decided to go for a motorcycle ride down some twisty road. Got a few miles down the road and decided I didn't care about going for a motorcycle ride. Considering that one of the reasons I moved next to the Appalachian Mountains was for the fantastic motorcycle riding, that was a strong enough signal that I quit taking the stuff. Now that's anecdotal, and your mileage most certainly may vary, but I now understand how a mis-diagnosis and an inappropriate prescription can cause problems.

a8da6b0c91d 13y ago
It's interesting that very safe chemicals like tianeptine and phenibut are not approved and used clinically in America, as they are in other countries. Instead much more profitable chemicals with known dangers are used.

gliese1337 13y ago

I don't know anything about Wellbutrin in particular, so it's entirely possible that its effects are very different from what I'm aware of and that it won't fit this pattern, but in my experience it is always important that people who are just starting anti-depressants or are switching anti-depressants have extra support and people looking out for them during the transition period; this isn't because anti-depressants don't work, it's because they take time to gain full effectiveness. A typical pattern is that patients will start to feel empowered and motivated to do something about their situation before they start to feel happy- as a result, "doing something about their situation" frequently means "trying to end it through suicide". The medication is working just fine, it's just not up to full effectiveness, and needs to be given time to get the patient through the transition period to where they stop wanting to kill themselves. (Source: several friends with clinical depression who have gone through this, plus a wife who recently completed a semester working as a psychiatric student nurse.)

jarrett 13y ago

> I'm quite sure such "anti-depressants" (what a misnomer) had a lot more to do with the suicide than anything Penn or any other institution or individual could possibly have. Are you basing this claim on the following study? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bupropion#cite_note-FDA-43 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bupropion#cite_note-FDA-43 I'm not taking a stand on whether that study's conclusions are correct or incorrect. I'm just seeking to clarify how you reached your conclusion. Regarding that study, Wikipedia states that "Considered in isolation, [Wellbutrin] was not statistically different from placebo." Again, I won't judge the accuracy of Wikipedia's statement. I just wanted to point it out.

joesmo 13y ago
I'm basing it on the black box warning, personal experience, and the review of various patient cases both in person and (less so) anecdotal evidence online. FDA Warning (partial) (http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Section=About_Medications&template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=7388 http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Section=About_Medications&t...): "In short-term studies, antidepressants increased the risk of suicidality in children, adolescents, and young adults when compared to placebo. Short-term studies did not show an increase in the risk of suicidality with antidepressants compared to placebo in adults beyond age 24. Adults age 65 and older taking antidepressants have a decreased risk of suicidality."
- daeken 13y ago
  Antidepressants don't make people have suicidal thoughts. They give people just enough energy and ability to execute on plans, which sometimes include suicide.

glenntnorton 13y ago

Agreed. I've been on AD's for over ten years and everyone has to find what works for them. It's not magic. You have to do your homework (if you are in a position to. Some folks aren't). What works for me is Lexapro. I switched to Zoloft 6 months ago because I believe you have to try other options and it was a very ugly, dark time. Just switched back to the Lexapro and I feel great. What works for one doesn't work for the other.