4 ms·

1. Only profit earned outside of US borders may be deferred in such a manner. 2. That profit isn't "hidden". It's in plain sight. It's not even a loophole. The

1. Only profit earned outside of US borders may be deferred in such a manner. 2. That profit isn't "hidden". It's in plain sight. It's not even a loophole. The money is still taxable - but only once it is repatriated.

afterburner 13y ago
You do realize companies make sure to game it such that they declare no profits in the US, right? And don't even care that much about repatriating it at all? And do so only when there are "tax amnesty holidays" where money can be repatriated "for free" during a short timespan? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement
- alexeisadeski3 13y ago
  1. All corporations in all nations game the tax system as much as possible. 2. The US corporations still pay more tax than do corporations in other nations. 3. US corporations with no foreign income tend to pay ~35% after deductions (per "independent" study cited above).
  - afterburner 13y ago
    So basically what you're telling me is it's very hard to properly compare the final effective tax rates on corporations in two different countries. The study above doesn't compare to other countries. So you don't actually know if it's really worse in the US.
    - alexeisadeski3 13y ago
      The effective US rates are higher than foreign statutory rates. So yes, its easy to tell that US corp tax rates are higher.
      - afterburner 13y ago
        "Over the last 10 years, General Electric’s Effective Tax Rate Was 2.3 Percent" http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/02/27/433250/general-electric-tax-rate-decade/ http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/02/27/433250/general-e... I could probably find numerous such examples among the richest companies in the US. So something about your claims doesn't work.
        alexeisadeski3 13y ago
        That's just another made up number. "There are more ways to measure effective tax rates than there are to order coffee at Starbucks" http://taxprof.typepad.com/files/140tn0197.pdf http://taxprof.typepad.com/files/140tn0197.pdf
        afterburner 13y ago
        Any number that disagrees with your premise is just wrong? Well, your world view is unassailable then isn't it? So tell me, what do you want? Lower taxes on corporations? They don't seem to be fleeing the US, and are reporting higher profits than ever.
        alexeisadeski3 13y ago
        Numbers are wrong if they're wrong. Read the paper I linked. If you want to argue, argue with the points he makes (and which I've attempted to repeat here). The paper very specifically addresses the sorts of made up numbers which you've cited. All taxes are distortionary. For maximum efficiency, all income taxes (which by definition punish income and saving) should be replaced with progressive VATs (thus encouraging income and saving). The worst distortionary taxes are the capital gains tax (which solely punishes saving) and the corporate income tax (which has no reason to exist at all - all disbursements are taxed as personal income tax anyways, hence the double taxation complaints). And yes, some companies do leave the US: ...Bisaro also extolled the added benefit of lowering his company's effective tax rate, which he forecast would drop from 28% to 17%. Based on Bisaro's strongly-held opinions about U.S. corporate tax policy, that must have been a major selling point for the deal. [1] And hey, guess what I bet you didn't know? It's actually illegal for US companies to leave the country! They have to "merge" with a foreign company to move out. [1] http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2013/05/21/actavis-the-latest-fortune-500-company-to-leave-the-u-s-for-tax-reasons/ http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2013/05/21/actavis-the...

afterburner 13y ago

You do realize companies make sure to game it such that they declare no profits in the US, right? And don't even care that much about repatriating it at all? And do so only when there are "tax amnesty holidays" where money can be repatriated "for free" during a short timespan? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement

alexeisadeski3 13y ago
1. All corporations in all nations game the tax system as much as possible. 2. The US corporations still pay more tax than do corporations in other nations. 3. US corporations with no foreign income tend to pay ~35% after deductions (per "independent" study cited above).
- afterburner 13y ago
  So basically what you're telling me is it's very hard to properly compare the final effective tax rates on corporations in two different countries. The study above doesn't compare to other countries. So you don't actually know if it's really worse in the US.
  - alexeisadeski3 13y ago
    The effective US rates are higher than foreign statutory rates. So yes, its easy to tell that US corp tax rates are higher.
    - afterburner 13y ago
      "Over the last 10 years, General Electric’s Effective Tax Rate Was 2.3 Percent" http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/02/27/433250/general-electric-tax-rate-decade/ http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/02/27/433250/general-e... I could probably find numerous such examples among the richest companies in the US. So something about your claims doesn't work.
      - alexeisadeski3 13y ago
        That's just another made up number. "There are more ways to measure effective tax rates than there are to order coffee at Starbucks" http://taxprof.typepad.com/files/140tn0197.pdf http://taxprof.typepad.com/files/140tn0197.pdf
        afterburner 13y ago
        Any number that disagrees with your premise is just wrong? Well, your world view is unassailable then isn't it? So tell me, what do you want? Lower taxes on corporations? They don't seem to be fleeing the US, and are reporting higher profits than ever.
        alexeisadeski3 13y ago
        Numbers are wrong if they're wrong. Read the paper I linked. If you want to argue, argue with the points he makes (and which I've attempted to repeat here). The paper very specifically addresses the sorts of made up numbers which you've cited. All taxes are distortionary. For maximum efficiency, all income taxes (which by definition punish income and saving) should be replaced with progressive VATs (thus encouraging income and saving). The worst distortionary taxes are the capital gains tax (which solely punishes saving) and the corporate income tax (which has no reason to exist at all - all disbursements are taxed as personal income tax anyways, hence the double taxation complaints). And yes, some companies do leave the US: ...Bisaro also extolled the added benefit of lowering his company's effective tax rate, which he forecast would drop from 28% to 17%. Based on Bisaro's strongly-held opinions about U.S. corporate tax policy, that must have been a major selling point for the deal. [1] And hey, guess what I bet you didn't know? It's actually illegal for US companies to leave the country! They have to "merge" with a foreign company to move out. [1] http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2013/05/21/actavis-the-latest-fortune-500-company-to-leave-the-u-s-for-tax-reasons/ http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2013/05/21/actavis-the...