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Why do developers resist being professionalized? Are we really all so naive to think that the world will grovel at our feet for the rest of time? Fact is, it's

Why do developers resist being professionalized? Are we really all so naive to think that the world will grovel at our feet for the rest of time? Fact is, it's extremely likely you've been taken advantage of, financially at some point, for your skills. It's an ugly reality, but I'm betting it has happened to a lot of people, or is happening. There are people who love nothing more than to take advantage of information asymmetries to extract disproportionate amounts of value from you. I'm having a hard time thinking of any downsides to professionalizing. It cements our place in society, makes it a 'thing' for laypeople to ascribe importance to (however idiotic that concept is), which starts a feedback loop of expecting respect, both personally and professionally.

arethuza 13y ago
"I'm having a hard time thinking of any downsides to professionalizing" Well, if you are a real professional then a complaint can result in your being struck off and it being legally impossible for you to work in that area again. I really don't see how (or indeed why) that model could be applied to general software development or why it would be in any way desirable. NB: It might be applicable in very small niche areas - safety critical systems etc.
- walshemj 13y ago
  It's actually very very hard to get struck off as a lawyer or a doctor.
  - herge 13y ago
    But once you're persona non-gratta, it's impossible to get back into the good graces: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Glass http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Glass
    - walshemj 13y ago
      Journalists are only professionals in the same way hookers are. As Baldwin said “Power without responsibility — the prerogative of the harlot throughout the ages.” Will any of the NOW hacks who hacked phones have a problem getting a new job NO. Was Rupert Murdoch stripped of his newspapers as a result of the NOW scandal NO
      - herge 13y ago
        Stephen Glass tried to get into the California Bar Association but was rejected, probably because of his past history as a reporter for The New Republic. Don't know what that has to do with either hookers or Rupert Murdoch.
  - arethuza 13y ago
    It depends what you mean by "very hard" - a quick google suggests that in 2012 over 40 doctors were struck off in the UK and I suspect that the number for lawyers struck off or where they had their firm closed would probably be rather higher.
- tjr 13y ago
  NB: It might be applicable in very small niche areas - safety critical systems etc. And such systems are certified (in various ways, depending on the exact nature of the system). It'd be a waste of time and energy to certify an iPhone game. So rather than certifying the software developer, certify the software, as needed. That way you can work on safety-critical jet software by day, and crank out cheesy, untested mobile entertainment software by night.
  - arethuza 13y ago
    Out of interest, who certifies that kind of software?
    - tjr 13y ago
      For example, in the United States, the Federal Aviation Administration is responsible for reviewing and signing off on aircraft systems. Documents DO-178B (and now DO-178C) describe the overall methods by which software that runs in avionics systems needs to be developed. FAA personnel (or more frequently, trained FAA representatives within the avionics company) conduct reviews to ensure that the software is in fact being developed according to the prescribed methods, including requirements capture, coding standards, configuration management, verification, etc. Software is tested in simulation environments, and in partial hardware setups, and eventually on actual airplanes, before receiving FAA sign-off.
- w4 13y ago
  > Well, if you are a real professional then a complaint can result in your being struck off and it being legally impossible for you to work in that area again. Sort of, but not really (here in the US anyways). Usually first complaints get you a slap on the wrist, and even things that rightfully ought to get you kicked out (e.g. attorneys mishandling escrow accounts) frequently don't result in much more than a fine. Basically, you really need to fuck up to be kicked out of a professional organization. A similar level of fuck up by a software engineer would probably result in them being similarly unemployable. This isn't necessarily a good thing (professional enforcement probably ought to be more aggressive), but the risk is overstated by these organizations, in part as a justification for their existence.
- mattgreenrocks 13y ago
  Good point, but I'd be surprised if this happened for no good reason. I dislike the probability of it happening, of course, but don't really sweat it.

arethuza 13y ago

"I'm having a hard time thinking of any downsides to professionalizing" Well, if you are a real professional then a complaint can result in your being struck off and it being legally impossible for you to work in that area again. I really don't see how (or indeed why) that model could be applied to general software development or why it would be in any way desirable. NB: It might be applicable in very small niche areas - safety critical systems etc.

walshemj 13y ago
It's actually very very hard to get struck off as a lawyer or a doctor.
- herge 13y ago
  But once you're persona non-gratta, it's impossible to get back into the good graces: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Glass http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Glass
  - walshemj 13y ago
    Journalists are only professionals in the same way hookers are. As Baldwin said “Power without responsibility — the prerogative of the harlot throughout the ages.” Will any of the NOW hacks who hacked phones have a problem getting a new job NO. Was Rupert Murdoch stripped of his newspapers as a result of the NOW scandal NO
    - herge 13y ago
      Stephen Glass tried to get into the California Bar Association but was rejected, probably because of his past history as a reporter for The New Republic. Don't know what that has to do with either hookers or Rupert Murdoch.
- arethuza 13y ago
  It depends what you mean by "very hard" - a quick google suggests that in 2012 over 40 doctors were struck off in the UK and I suspect that the number for lawyers struck off or where they had their firm closed would probably be rather higher.
tjr 13y ago
NB: It might be applicable in very small niche areas - safety critical systems etc. And such systems are certified (in various ways, depending on the exact nature of the system). It'd be a waste of time and energy to certify an iPhone game. So rather than certifying the software developer, certify the software, as needed. That way you can work on safety-critical jet software by day, and crank out cheesy, untested mobile entertainment software by night.
- arethuza 13y ago
  Out of interest, who certifies that kind of software?
  - tjr 13y ago
    For example, in the United States, the Federal Aviation Administration is responsible for reviewing and signing off on aircraft systems. Documents DO-178B (and now DO-178C) describe the overall methods by which software that runs in avionics systems needs to be developed. FAA personnel (or more frequently, trained FAA representatives within the avionics company) conduct reviews to ensure that the software is in fact being developed according to the prescribed methods, including requirements capture, coding standards, configuration management, verification, etc. Software is tested in simulation environments, and in partial hardware setups, and eventually on actual airplanes, before receiving FAA sign-off.
w4 13y ago
> Well, if you are a real professional then a complaint can result in your being struck off and it being legally impossible for you to work in that area again. Sort of, but not really (here in the US anyways). Usually first complaints get you a slap on the wrist, and even things that rightfully ought to get you kicked out (e.g. attorneys mishandling escrow accounts) frequently don't result in much more than a fine. Basically, you really need to fuck up to be kicked out of a professional organization. A similar level of fuck up by a software engineer would probably result in them being similarly unemployable. This isn't necessarily a good thing (professional enforcement probably ought to be more aggressive), but the risk is overstated by these organizations, in part as a justification for their existence.
mattgreenrocks 13y ago
Good point, but I'd be surprised if this happened for no good reason. I dislike the probability of it happening, of course, but don't really sweat it.