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That's fine. I don't care about convincing you. I care about convincing people who have the same perspective on individual freedom that I do that are reading th

by boon 13y ago

That's fine. I don't care about convincing you. I care about convincing people who have the same perspective on individual freedom that I do that are reading this thread. I guess if there's no convincing you, then your open-mindedness claim dies with this discussion. Toodle-oo.

dragontamer 13y ago
Your solution was valid. The problem is, you didn't realize that the US Government already is doing what you're describing. You're calling me close minded, when YOU are the one walking away from this conversation. As I said, you gave a valid solution, but this solution you're talking about requires a Government. But if you don't feel like discussing it... sure, c ya later. I will say that this is the first time someone has called me "close minded" for calling their solution analogous to one of the most economically stable solutions known.
- boon 13y ago
  I appreciate you haggling over the definition of government. The difference between a government and a private entity in this situation is that the government can force you to pay taxes to pay for this river management whether you interact with the river or not, or else you get imprisoned. On the other hand, if you don't want to interact with the private owner of the river, then you don't have to. The world is round; go the other way. The river is only so long; go around it. The river is on the surface of the planet; fly above it. Now, I have NOT said that I subscribe to a full-on anarcho-capitalist system; I mainly understand the theory behind it, and think that it makes the best theory ON WHICH TO BASE A PRACTICAL SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT. I do think government is needed for some things. I'm a huge fan of our original form of government in the US, namely federalism — though I'd have some cuts I'd make there too. And I mainly felt like leaving this conversation because you seemingly try to insist that I don't know what I'm talking about. I do know what I'm talking about. Just because you don't agree with me, or you feel you've thought about this more than me doesn't make it so. Did you even watch the video of Milton Friedman on market failures? He left it open at the end to say there are times where government might be best, but you cannot immediately and automatically say that government is better — which is exactly what the progressive movement in this country tends to claim.
  - dragontamer 13y ago
    If you and I agree that pure theoretical forms of government have flaws, then we are in agreement. This subthread started because someone disagreed with the following words: "Furthermore, it has been proven that ALL pure systems are imperfect." I hold no qualms against Anarcho-capitalism, especially today as deregulation laws are beginning to show promise (New Jersey has some deregulation laws that seem to improve upon utilities like power and gas). It is when a purist comes up, and claims that it is the solution to all problems that I become a bit antsy. Sometimes, Deregualtion is the key to solving problems. Other times, we need regulation. Pick and choose the philosophy for the situation, there is no silver bullet.
    - boon 13y ago
      Glad we could find common ground here. What about my distinction in your definition of government? You seemed so adamant about the fact that a private owner and our current government are the same, effectively. I thought I gave a reasonable response to that claim. You didn't continue that line of debate in your response, though.
      - dragontamer 13y ago
        Remember your world history. The East India Company was a publicly held stock by merchants and aristocrats. They were completely unrelated to the crown. That didn't change the fact that they were the de facto rulers of India (complete with a standing army and navy) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company Companies can become Governments rather quickly. The difference between Companies and Governments is that there is none. The US Government is simply one of the largest companies created on this land. The US Government has also claimed monopoly privileges on armies and police force. Within the lands that the US Government owns, no other groups of people can organize an army. Basically, Companies and Governments are all the same thing. They are a collection of people, attempting to work together for some abstract purpose. Besides, the US Government has adopted anarcho-capitalism before. Calvin Coolidge's quote: "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration has been minding my own business." I'd say, Calvin Coolidge probably did more for the Anarcho-capitalist cause than any thought experiment revolving around an Anarcho-capitalist utopia. A heavy pusher of deregulation and a "Hands Off" approach to governing. Certainly, Calvin Coolidge was less oppresive to the American population than the East India Trading Company was to the Indians.

by boon 13y ago

dragontamer 13y ago

Your solution was valid. The problem is, you didn't realize that the US Government already is doing what you're describing. You're calling me close minded, when YOU are the one walking away from this conversation. As I said, you gave a valid solution, but this solution you're talking about requires a Government. But if you don't feel like discussing it... sure, c ya later. I will say that this is the first time someone has called me "close minded" for calling their solution analogous to one of the most economically stable solutions known.

boon 13y ago
I appreciate you haggling over the definition of government. The difference between a government and a private entity in this situation is that the government can force you to pay taxes to pay for this river management whether you interact with the river or not, or else you get imprisoned. On the other hand, if you don't want to interact with the private owner of the river, then you don't have to. The world is round; go the other way. The river is only so long; go around it. The river is on the surface of the planet; fly above it. Now, I have NOT said that I subscribe to a full-on anarcho-capitalist system; I mainly understand the theory behind it, and think that it makes the best theory ON WHICH TO BASE A PRACTICAL SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT. I do think government is needed for some things. I'm a huge fan of our original form of government in the US, namely federalism — though I'd have some cuts I'd make there too. And I mainly felt like leaving this conversation because you seemingly try to insist that I don't know what I'm talking about. I do know what I'm talking about. Just because you don't agree with me, or you feel you've thought about this more than me doesn't make it so. Did you even watch the video of Milton Friedman on market failures? He left it open at the end to say there are times where government might be best, but you cannot immediately and automatically say that government is better — which is exactly what the progressive movement in this country tends to claim.
- dragontamer 13y ago
  If you and I agree that pure theoretical forms of government have flaws, then we are in agreement. This subthread started because someone disagreed with the following words: "Furthermore, it has been proven that ALL pure systems are imperfect." I hold no qualms against Anarcho-capitalism, especially today as deregulation laws are beginning to show promise (New Jersey has some deregulation laws that seem to improve upon utilities like power and gas). It is when a purist comes up, and claims that it is the solution to all problems that I become a bit antsy. Sometimes, Deregualtion is the key to solving problems. Other times, we need regulation. Pick and choose the philosophy for the situation, there is no silver bullet.
  - boon 13y ago
    Glad we could find common ground here. What about my distinction in your definition of government? You seemed so adamant about the fact that a private owner and our current government are the same, effectively. I thought I gave a reasonable response to that claim. You didn't continue that line of debate in your response, though.
    - dragontamer 13y ago
      Remember your world history. The East India Company was a publicly held stock by merchants and aristocrats. They were completely unrelated to the crown. That didn't change the fact that they were the de facto rulers of India (complete with a standing army and navy) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company Companies can become Governments rather quickly. The difference between Companies and Governments is that there is none. The US Government is simply one of the largest companies created on this land. The US Government has also claimed monopoly privileges on armies and police force. Within the lands that the US Government owns, no other groups of people can organize an army. Basically, Companies and Governments are all the same thing. They are a collection of people, attempting to work together for some abstract purpose. Besides, the US Government has adopted anarcho-capitalism before. Calvin Coolidge's quote: "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration has been minding my own business." I'd say, Calvin Coolidge probably did more for the Anarcho-capitalist cause than any thought experiment revolving around an Anarcho-capitalist utopia. A heavy pusher of deregulation and a "Hands Off" approach to governing. Certainly, Calvin Coolidge was less oppresive to the American population than the East India Trading Company was to the Indians.