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> the severance and extended benefits are far more generous than any layoff I've been through here in the states Interesting. Are big tech companies less gener

by mjn 13y ago

> the severance and extended benefits are far more generous than any layoff I've been through here in the states Interesting. Are big tech companies less generous than big engineering firms in other fields? When companies like BP, Boeing, etc. have had layoff rounds, 3 months is just about the minimum package for an involuntary termination, and it's common to first offer much higher voluntary packages to reduce headcount without having to actually fire (sorry, "terminate") people, especially longtime employees. My dad accepted a voluntary severance package equal to 18 months' salary some years ago (something like "1 month per year of service up to a cap" is a common formula for voluntary offers). I think this is in part due to what you mention: the morale of the existing employees can be significantly impacted by how their former colleagues were treated. Many people know each other out of work, so escorting the employees out of the building by security with no warning is not going to successfully keep them from talking, and if anything will probably just make them more resentful when they meet up for a beer after work to discuss how the layoff was handled. The former employees may also turn up in other situations (college recruiting, industry organizations, consulting/sales, etc.) where it's not to your company's advantage for there to be a lot of people floating around who hold a grudge about the manner in which they were abruptly laid off.

PakG1 13y ago
When IBM did their layoff action in 2013, people in Australia received 2 weeks pay for every year they had worked at IBM. I was there, saw those people leave, saw what they got offered. Was really sad about it because one guy in particular was possibly the best project manager for our department in all of the Asia Pacific region. They gave the most critical projects to this guy. He worked hellish hours to get a severely important project done, as well as managing the network program (project portfolio). Email was sent out that he'd go on a well-deserved extended vacation, and when he came back, he'd be reassigned to another critical role now that everything in Network and other stuff are under control. When he came back, he got his 2 weeks pay per year worked. That really pissed me off. If you're going to fire people, fire the worst guy, not the best guy. He was capable of doing the work of 3 project managers.
- a3n 13y ago
  > They gave the most critical projects to this guy. He worked hellish hours to get a severely important project done, ... When he came back, he got his 2 weeks pay per year worked. And thus was the lesson learned by one more person. We are all, each and every one of us, hardware to be virtualized and eliminated as soon as possible. We are all, each and every one of us, an expense to be minimized. You may get along great with your boss and co-workers, mutual admiration all around, and the people may be loyal to each other, and really mean it. But when the animal that is the corporation decides it needs to eject you, you're ejected. It may even fall to those mutually loyal people that you worked with to eject you. And they'll feel bad. But it's not them making the decision, it's the corporate animal. So do a good job, but go home at night and play with your kids, or dog, or S.O. Don't waste your life at work, because work doesn't care about you.
  - crusso 13y ago
    ... because an anecdote about someone good being let go is data showing that that's the way it normally happens. ... because the person who was let go and who worked very hard didn't learn anything, didn't improve his ability, couldn't take the tremendous experience he had gained and apply it in a new job or gasp start his own enterprise. No, this isn't an anecdote that should serve as a red flag signalling IBM's continued move downward. Far from it. This is an object lesson on why we shouldn't even try.
    - Mvandenbergh 13y ago
      No, but it is an object lesson in being strategic in where and when you try. Go ahead and work long hours on projects that build your skills, that will make you look good to the organisation or to future employers (or clients), but don't do it out of loyalty.
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
        13y ago
greedo 13y ago
Just a note, they're not escorted out of the building to prevent them from talking to their colleagues, they're escorted out so they don't have a chance to do any damage to network stuff (rm -rf/deltree c:) etc.
diogenescynic 13y ago
The reason most large companies give 2+ months paid severance isn't because they are 'nice'--it's to get around the 60-notice period required when laying off more than X% of your work force (due to the WARN Act).
- walshemj 13y ago
  Typical assuming that all coutrys have the same laws as the USA.
  - dfc 13y ago
    Did you notice that the quote at the top of mjn's comment says "here in the states"? The geography was clear from the start. The only person that did not realize this was you, but at least your ignorance was a nice excuse to get some America hating in before bedtime.
    - walshemj 13y ago
      The op was explicitly about IBM in India and the redundancy there FFS. Where exactly does the WARN act apply to India? abotu as much as fucking TUPE does Its fracking karma whoring civilians chiming in with anecdotes they heard from their mate down the golf club about labour law in a different country entirely that piss me off
      - dfc 13y ago
        Yes the original link was about IBM/India. Smoyer started a discussion by comparing the layoff in India to his personal experiences in the states. From smoyer down, this thread is about layoffs in the states. That is why someone commented on US labor laws. Why are you so threatened by a discussion of US labor law?

by mjn 13y ago

PakG1 13y ago

When IBM did their layoff action in 2013, people in Australia received 2 weeks pay for every year they had worked at IBM. I was there, saw those people leave, saw what they got offered. Was really sad about it because one guy in particular was possibly the best project manager for our department in all of the Asia Pacific region. They gave the most critical projects to this guy. He worked hellish hours to get a severely important project done, as well as managing the network program (project portfolio). Email was sent out that he'd go on a well-deserved extended vacation, and when he came back, he'd be reassigned to another critical role now that everything in Network and other stuff are under control. When he came back, he got his 2 weeks pay per year worked. That really pissed me off. If you're going to fire people, fire the worst guy, not the best guy. He was capable of doing the work of 3 project managers.

a3n 13y ago
> They gave the most critical projects to this guy. He worked hellish hours to get a severely important project done, ... When he came back, he got his 2 weeks pay per year worked. And thus was the lesson learned by one more person. We are all, each and every one of us, hardware to be virtualized and eliminated as soon as possible. We are all, each and every one of us, an expense to be minimized. You may get along great with your boss and co-workers, mutual admiration all around, and the people may be loyal to each other, and really mean it. But when the animal that is the corporation decides it needs to eject you, you're ejected. It may even fall to those mutually loyal people that you worked with to eject you. And they'll feel bad. But it's not them making the decision, it's the corporate animal. So do a good job, but go home at night and play with your kids, or dog, or S.O. Don't waste your life at work, because work doesn't care about you.
- crusso 13y ago
  ... because an anecdote about someone good being let go is data showing that that's the way it normally happens. ... because the person who was let go and who worked very hard didn't learn anything, didn't improve his ability, couldn't take the tremendous experience he had gained and apply it in a new job or gasp start his own enterprise. No, this isn't an anecdote that should serve as a red flag signalling IBM's continued move downward. Far from it. This is an object lesson on why we shouldn't even try.
  - Mvandenbergh 13y ago
    No, but it is an object lesson in being strategic in where and when you try. Go ahead and work long hours on projects that build your skills, that will make you look good to the organisation or to future employers (or clients), but don't do it out of loyalty.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
      - 13y ago

greedo 13y ago

Just a note, they're not escorted out of the building to prevent them from talking to their colleagues, they're escorted out so they don't have a chance to do any damage to network stuff (rm -rf/deltree c:) etc.

diogenescynic 13y ago

The reason most large companies give 2+ months paid severance isn't because they are 'nice'--it's to get around the 60-notice period required when laying off more than X% of your work force (due to the WARN Act).

walshemj 13y ago
Typical assuming that all coutrys have the same laws as the USA.
- dfc 13y ago
  Did you notice that the quote at the top of mjn's comment says "here in the states"? The geography was clear from the start. The only person that did not realize this was you, but at least your ignorance was a nice excuse to get some America hating in before bedtime.
  - walshemj 13y ago
    The op was explicitly about IBM in India and the redundancy there FFS. Where exactly does the WARN act apply to India? abotu as much as fucking TUPE does Its fracking karma whoring civilians chiming in with anecdotes they heard from their mate down the golf club about labour law in a different country entirely that piss me off
    - dfc 13y ago
      Yes the original link was about IBM/India. Smoyer started a discussion by comparing the layoff in India to his personal experiences in the states. From smoyer down, this thread is about layoffs in the states. That is why someone commented on US labor laws. Why are you so threatened by a discussion of US labor law?