6 ms·

Feminists believe that traditional female behavior is bad/useless and needs to be eliminated. We tell girls that to be worthwhile, they need to live lives like

by tw268 13y ago

Feminists believe that traditional female behavior is bad/useless and needs to be eliminated. We tell girls that to be worthwhile, they need to live lives like men. I never understood this. If people are happy and productive in traditional roles, why do they need to be eliminated?

PhasmaFelis 13y ago
That's the popular strawman, not what (most) feminists believe. Feminism* teaches that women (and men) should be allowed to do whatever they want, whether that's stay home with the kids or run a corporation; as opposed to "traditional" values that dictate strictly gender-segregated life paths. Yes, I'm sure you can find feminists who think that blah blah blah whatever. Every group, movement, and party on Earth has fringe members. Look at what the majority* believes, not what the furthest extremes say.
- stcredzero 13y ago
  When radical feminists start deliberately violating the free assembly and speech rights of other groups, what should the response of the majority feminists be?
  - magicalist 13y ago
    Why should "majority feminists" have any more expectations for their response to those actions than there are for, say, your response?
  - abraininavat 13y ago
    To tell them to fuck off obviously. Can you point to specific instances of that happening?
    - stcredzero 13y ago
      Yes. Groups labeling themselves as feminists have sought to disrupt speakers, harass audience members, and basically stop gatherings by literally doing nothing more enlightening than yelling, "Shut up already!" Then this behavior is justified through ad homonym attacks on the speaker and audience. You can find references to the earlier incident here: http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2013/03/08/a-mens-rights-advocate-spoke-at-the-university-of-toronto/ http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2013/03/08/a-mens-righ... Also, 5 minutes into the speech described above, the fire alarm was pulled. To me, that's not speaking truth to power. That's violating the rights of others.
- tw268 13y ago
  Feminists give their girls toys typically associated with males and male professions. They seem mortified that their girls might want to be veterinarians, teachers, nurses, or mothers. Thereby, they devalue all the women who have acted like women in the past. No dolls for you, little girl. If you have a Barbie, it better be the one with a computer, web developer Barbie. How about you put down that tutu, and put on these mechanic overalls instead? This isn't a hypothetical. I have a friend with a strong education who wants to be a teacher. Her parents told her they would be disappointed if she did that. It's an inappropriate profession for an ambitious female, even if it is what she's passionate about. We tell girls to work 80 hours a week. Forget about a family, unless you can squeeze it in somewhere in your late 30s. And pick up a nice male profession, like programming. Don't even think about being a housewife or a yoga instructor. The message is to act like boys, not useless girls.
  - jakobsen 13y ago
    Ok, stop the strawman bullshit already. What you describe is NOT feminism by any stretch of imagination. You are describing the imposing of traditional roles based on gender (in your case, that of boys on a girl) which is exactly what feminism is against.
    - tw268 13y ago
      What is feminism, if not the actions of feminists? I've seen this with my own eyes. And the message of "Lean In" and the like is very much against the traditional female lifestyle. Prioritizing family over work is called "leaning out" and criticized.
      - jakobsen 13y ago
        I think it's wrong to define an ideology with hundreds of years of history by the actions of a random person you happen to know. Have you ever bothered to read Wollstonecraft? Simone de Beauvoir? even Naomi Wolf?? I encourage to do so and try to understand how feminists outside your circle think and behave.
abraininavat 13y ago
Yeah... Feminist here. You don't know what you're talking about. Most if us believe nothing like what you are saying. Do you base a lot of your beliefs on such shallow and demonstrably incorrect premises?

by tw268 13y ago

PhasmaFelis 13y ago

That's the popular strawman, not what (most) feminists believe. Feminism* teaches that women (and men) should be allowed to do whatever they want, whether that's stay home with the kids or run a corporation; as opposed to "traditional" values that dictate strictly gender-segregated life paths. Yes, I'm sure you can find feminists who think that blah blah blah whatever. Every group, movement, and party on Earth has fringe members. Look at what the majority* believes, not what the furthest extremes say.

stcredzero 13y ago
When radical feminists start deliberately violating the free assembly and speech rights of other groups, what should the response of the majority feminists be?
- magicalist 13y ago
  Why should "majority feminists" have any more expectations for their response to those actions than there are for, say, your response?
- abraininavat 13y ago
  To tell them to fuck off obviously. Can you point to specific instances of that happening?
  - stcredzero 13y ago
    Yes. Groups labeling themselves as feminists have sought to disrupt speakers, harass audience members, and basically stop gatherings by literally doing nothing more enlightening than yelling, "Shut up already!" Then this behavior is justified through ad homonym attacks on the speaker and audience. You can find references to the earlier incident here: http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2013/03/08/a-mens-rights-advocate-spoke-at-the-university-of-toronto/ http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2013/03/08/a-mens-righ... Also, 5 minutes into the speech described above, the fire alarm was pulled. To me, that's not speaking truth to power. That's violating the rights of others.
tw268 13y ago
Feminists give their girls toys typically associated with males and male professions. They seem mortified that their girls might want to be veterinarians, teachers, nurses, or mothers. Thereby, they devalue all the women who have acted like women in the past. No dolls for you, little girl. If you have a Barbie, it better be the one with a computer, web developer Barbie. How about you put down that tutu, and put on these mechanic overalls instead? This isn't a hypothetical. I have a friend with a strong education who wants to be a teacher. Her parents told her they would be disappointed if she did that. It's an inappropriate profession for an ambitious female, even if it is what she's passionate about. We tell girls to work 80 hours a week. Forget about a family, unless you can squeeze it in somewhere in your late 30s. And pick up a nice male profession, like programming. Don't even think about being a housewife or a yoga instructor. The message is to act like boys, not useless girls.
- jakobsen 13y ago
  Ok, stop the strawman bullshit already. What you describe is NOT feminism by any stretch of imagination. You are describing the imposing of traditional roles based on gender (in your case, that of boys on a girl) which is exactly what feminism is against.
  - tw268 13y ago
    What is feminism, if not the actions of feminists? I've seen this with my own eyes. And the message of "Lean In" and the like is very much against the traditional female lifestyle. Prioritizing family over work is called "leaning out" and criticized.
    - jakobsen 13y ago
      I think it's wrong to define an ideology with hundreds of years of history by the actions of a random person you happen to know. Have you ever bothered to read Wollstonecraft? Simone de Beauvoir? even Naomi Wolf?? I encourage to do so and try to understand how feminists outside your circle think and behave.

abraininavat 13y ago

Yeah... Feminist here. You don't know what you're talking about. Most if us believe nothing like what you are saying. Do you base a lot of your beliefs on such shallow and demonstrably incorrect premises?