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> not greedy government bureaucrats waiting to be bribed Instead of greedy speculators who are willing to pump and dump or crash the economy to make money off

by d23 13y ago

> not greedy government bureaucrats waiting to be bribed Instead of greedy speculators who are willing to pump and dump or crash the economy to make money off of the ignorant?

ninjac0der 13y ago
I prefer that to a system which props itself up as protecting ignorance (it doesn't). It only promotes ignorance in things like the belief that our government and corporations get together and draft new laws to protect the ignorant masses. I'm sure you just need /more/ regulation, that way we can finally pin down the corps that keep bobbing and weaving through the existing regulation like the judges are looking for any excuse to make it easier on them.
boon 13y ago
That only works so long. Eventually the actors in the economy figure out how to route around the damage being done.
- dragontamer 13y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_failure http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_failure Sometimes, the market does not figure it out... especially with a populace that is imperfectly educated (and not "perfectly logical, perfectly rational" beings in most theoretical economics) But even with perfectly logical and perfectly rational beings however, there still are market failures. And it is up to the population to create Governments to deal with these market failures. (Usually through deregulation or regulation) Case in point: LEXG, a 2010 stock that is widely considered "pump and dump". Despite all the regulations, and centuries of knowledge of pump and dump... it still happened. BTC itself has a growing volume of trade... but a lot of smaller cryptocurrenies are simply pump-and-dump schemes.
  - boon 13y ago
    It's a good thing we're really good at electing people that do a good job of watching out for our well-being! Do you think we'll always have an "imperfectly educated" populace? Do you consider yourself part of that sector of society?
    - dragontamer 13y ago
      Imperfect education is a fact of life. Its well known that economic models of "free markets" fail instantly on the first assumption. We are not perfectly rational beings with perfect knowledge. And yet, a number of "free market" arguments are based upon this fact.
      - VMG 13y ago
        If people are imperfectly educated, why let them elect representatives, which are themselves flawed in probably even worse ways that the average person?
        gnaritas 13y ago
        > If people are imperfectly educated That's not really an if, it's a simple fact that has and probably will always be true. > why let them elect representatives Because millions of idiots turns out to be better than kings and dictators for the average quality of life.
        boon 13y ago
        Can we not think of a way to refine the system of "idiots voting" without being accused of the false dichotomy of wanting to go back to a monarchy?
        dragontamer 13y ago
        Good luck with that conversation. Any form of "removing idiots" from the voting pool will give comparisons to the Literacy Test, and you will be literally compared to a slave-driver. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_test http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_test False dichotomies are the bread and butter of politics. Perhaps if you knew the history of this country, you'd know that you aren't gonna get very far on this subject. I welcome you to try, but from a political / historical point of view, there is too much bad blood in this discussion for people to discuss it sanely.

by d23 13y ago

> not greedy government bureaucrats waiting to be bribed Instead of greedy speculators who are willing to pump and dump or crash the economy to make money off of the ignorant?

ninjac0der 13y ago

I prefer that to a system which props itself up as protecting ignorance (it doesn't). It only promotes ignorance in things like the belief that our government and corporations get together and draft new laws to protect the ignorant masses. I'm sure you just need /more/ regulation, that way we can finally pin down the corps that keep bobbing and weaving through the existing regulation like the judges are looking for any excuse to make it easier on them.

boon 13y ago

That only works so long. Eventually the actors in the economy figure out how to route around the damage being done.

dragontamer 13y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_failure http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_failure Sometimes, the market does not figure it out... especially with a populace that is imperfectly educated (and not "perfectly logical, perfectly rational" beings in most theoretical economics) But even with perfectly logical and perfectly rational beings however, there still are market failures. And it is up to the population to create Governments to deal with these market failures. (Usually through deregulation or regulation) Case in point: LEXG, a 2010 stock that is widely considered "pump and dump". Despite all the regulations, and centuries of knowledge of pump and dump... it still happened. BTC itself has a growing volume of trade... but a lot of smaller cryptocurrenies are simply pump-and-dump schemes.
- boon 13y ago
  It's a good thing we're really good at electing people that do a good job of watching out for our well-being! Do you think we'll always have an "imperfectly educated" populace? Do you consider yourself part of that sector of society?
  - dragontamer 13y ago
    Imperfect education is a fact of life. Its well known that economic models of "free markets" fail instantly on the first assumption. We are not perfectly rational beings with perfect knowledge. And yet, a number of "free market" arguments are based upon this fact.
    - VMG 13y ago
      If people are imperfectly educated, why let them elect representatives, which are themselves flawed in probably even worse ways that the average person?
      - gnaritas 13y ago
        > If people are imperfectly educated That's not really an if, it's a simple fact that has and probably will always be true. > why let them elect representatives Because millions of idiots turns out to be better than kings and dictators for the average quality of life.
        boon 13y ago
        Can we not think of a way to refine the system of "idiots voting" without being accused of the false dichotomy of wanting to go back to a monarchy?
        dragontamer 13y ago
        Good luck with that conversation. Any form of "removing idiots" from the voting pool will give comparisons to the Literacy Test, and you will be literally compared to a slave-driver. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_test http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_test False dichotomies are the bread and butter of politics. Perhaps if you knew the history of this country, you'd know that you aren't gonna get very far on this subject. I welcome you to try, but from a political / historical point of view, there is too much bad blood in this discussion for people to discuss it sanely.