4 ms·

Lets not forget that while Hitler and Stalin were playing their games, ordinary citizens of Germany and Russia did not vote for any war, hyperinflation, police

Lets not forget that while Hitler and Stalin were playing their games, ordinary citizens of Germany and Russia did not vote for any war, hyperinflation, police state (neither imperial, nor soviet), collectivization etc. One regime was pushing people in the poverty, another one was using the faults of the predecessor to justify its own evildoing. Debating whether Stalin really helped Russia by killing some generals and starving ukrainian farmers to death is pointless. Several high-rank psychopaths in Europe were manipulating people left and right with carrots and sticks. That's the main concern, not any particular tactic used by any one of them to achieve their own goals.

1gor 13y ago
> starving ukrainian farmers Stalin starved as many Russians as Ukrainians (if not more) in the process of forced collectivization and bread expropriation. This crime/tragedy happened throughout Soviet Union in 1932-33. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%931933 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%931... There is a propaganda soundbite going around that Soviet famine of 1932-33 was created artificially to target Ukrainians (Holodomor). Let's not repeat it here. All people of USSR were victims.
- herokusaki 13y ago
  >There is a propaganda soundbite going around that Soviet famine of 1932-33 was created artificially to target Ukrainians (Holodomor). Let's not repeat it here. That's an awfully cavalier way to dismiss what appears to be the general historical consensus on a genocide.
  - vetinari 13y ago
    General consensus as in Goebels was right?
- danmaz74 13y ago
  Just for reference: Encyclopædia Britannica estimates that 6 to 8 million people died from hunger in the Soviet Union during this period, of whom 4 to 5 million were Ukrainians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%9333 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%93...
s_baby 13y ago
>Lets not forget that while Hitler and Stalin were playing their games, ordinary citizens of Germany and Russia did not vote for any war, hyperinflation, police state (neither imperial, nor soviet), collectivization etc. One regime was pushing people in the poverty, another one was using the faults of the predecessor to justify its own evildoing. What? Lets not forget Hitler was very popular in Nazi Germany. A cult figure on a national level. Citizens of a democracy always share responsibility in such tragedies.
memracom 13y ago
Actually, I think that studying their tactics is worthwhile because it helps us to recognize when our own governments and media are walking down that same trail. In particular, looking at what was going on in European society in the 20s and 30s might lead one to worry where the current anti-Russian rhetoric would lead. It has already resulted in a ridiculous situation in Ukraine where hard core protesters seem to have lost all touch with sanity and the norms of civil society. Sure the leaders of Ukraine are robbing the people left and right but few of the protesters seem to care about solving that problem. Instead they all try to advance their own conflicting agendas and have failed to find consensus or to create a leadership that could attack the robber barons where it hurts.

1gor 13y ago

> starving ukrainian farmers Stalin starved as many Russians as Ukrainians (if not more) in the process of forced collectivization and bread expropriation. This crime/tragedy happened throughout Soviet Union in 1932-33. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%931933 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%931... There is a propaganda soundbite going around that Soviet famine of 1932-33 was created artificially to target Ukrainians (Holodomor). Let's not repeat it here. All people of USSR were victims.

herokusaki 13y ago
>There is a propaganda soundbite going around that Soviet famine of 1932-33 was created artificially to target Ukrainians (Holodomor). Let's not repeat it here. That's an awfully cavalier way to dismiss what appears to be the general historical consensus on a genocide.
- vetinari 13y ago
  General consensus as in Goebels was right?
danmaz74 13y ago
Just for reference: Encyclopædia Britannica estimates that 6 to 8 million people died from hunger in the Soviet Union during this period, of whom 4 to 5 million were Ukrainians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%9333 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%93...

s_baby 13y ago

>Lets not forget that while Hitler and Stalin were playing their games, ordinary citizens of Germany and Russia did not vote for any war, hyperinflation, police state (neither imperial, nor soviet), collectivization etc. One regime was pushing people in the poverty, another one was using the faults of the predecessor to justify its own evildoing. What? Lets not forget Hitler was very popular in Nazi Germany. A cult figure on a national level. Citizens of a democracy always share responsibility in such tragedies.

memracom 13y ago

Actually, I think that studying their tactics is worthwhile because it helps us to recognize when our own governments and media are walking down that same trail. In particular, looking at what was going on in European society in the 20s and 30s might lead one to worry where the current anti-Russian rhetoric would lead. It has already resulted in a ridiculous situation in Ukraine where hard core protesters seem to have lost all touch with sanity and the norms of civil society. Sure the leaders of Ukraine are robbing the people left and right but few of the protesters seem to care about solving that problem. Instead they all try to advance their own conflicting agendas and have failed to find consensus or to create a leadership that could attack the robber barons where it hurts.