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Yeah, millions of people that died in Siberia were there for a reason. They must have been criminals, otherwise good father Stalin wouldn't imprison them. Yeah,

Yeah, millions of people that died in Siberia were there for a reason. They must have been criminals, otherwise good father Stalin wouldn't imprison them. Yeah, of course. But I'm pretty sure Hitler's victory would be a lesser evil for USSR and neighboring countries.

Bootvis 13y ago
In the grand Nazi vision they would all have been killed.
- oleganza 13y ago
  So if you are to be killed by Hitler, it's okay if Stalin kills you to prevent that? What happened with "initiation of force is bad, period"? If there's no moral absolute, then there's no point in debating what's better and what's worse. It's just some atoms wobbling in the spacetime.
  - tobiasu 13y ago
    Explain why someone should spend time debating with you?
  - lmm 13y ago
    If Stalin was able to save the lives of 50 million people who would otherwise have died by killing 10 million of them (which I don't necessarily think is actually the case, but supposing it was), I call that a good act. "initiation of force is bad, period" is not a good moral philosophy.
    - lafar6502 13y ago
      Yeah, Stalin is a great savior of humanity. Let's give him a Nobel prize for killing only 10 million while he could easily kill everybody. Thank you for showing me the path of enlightened.
  - Bootvis 13y ago
    That was not what I said, I said that Hitler was not a lesser evil than Stalin.
  - democracy 13y ago
    You can't judge events of the past from todays norms of morale. And if you think you can - give me a name of a leader during first half of last century that was absolutely clean and innocent and whose decisions did not kill anyone.
    - oleganza 13y ago
      All political leaders are psychopathic manipulators and sadists. Normal, sane person would strive to avoid ordering one group of people to point guns at another group of people as a part of a Grand Plan. Normal person would use weapons and violence only as a last measure when all else didn't prevent getting him/her in that awful situation.
mlvljr 13y ago
Lesser evil for us? Not funny by any means.
democracy 13y ago
Who said they were criminals. They were elves who Stalin the Terrible sent there so that noone could stop him eating even more babies.
democracy 13y ago
This is not funny. In my country Belarus every fourth person was killed by Germans and collaborators, mostly civilians. Every family lost someone. Many lost everyone. Many cities and villages vanished. If you happen to be in Belarus visit Khatyn memorial or just watch "Come and see" movie. This is something you will never forget. http://khatyn.by/en/ http://khatyn.by/en/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091251/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091251/
- lafar6502 13y ago
  There's also an ugly angle to the 'Khatyn' story. http://www.the-tls.co.uk/tls/public/article1288564.ece http://www.the-tls.co.uk/tls/public/article1288564.ece I'm serious and not making fun of it.
  - democracy 13y ago
    This story is a vomit full of lies. TIMOTHY SNYDER is a disgrace to Yale. Even the beginning of the article where he says "Soviets and Germans" were allies - he probably means "Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact". And then "Munich agreement" puts France and UK to the list of German allies too. Was it his intention? No. This is one big disgusting piece of propaganda that is probably ok for a CNN internetf-fact journalist (no one expects much from her), but not ok for a "professor of history".
    - lafar6502 13y ago
      Well, Ribbentrop-Molotov pact is not a lie, and Stalin's regime isn't a lie as well. 'Katyn' has been confirmed too, even by Russians (very reluctantly, however). I'm pretty sure you don't know what you are talking about, or you have been living under Soviet propaganda all your childhood.
      - democracy 13y ago
        Funny you didn't mention Munich agreement as well as the "professor" when this treaty casts shadow on UK and France. And then Molotov pacts is not a lie but a very smart move to try to gain time for the USSR after Europe was getting under Fascists with cheering . Stalin knew that Hitler is being pushed to the west, and the next Munich agreement would not be far. Stalin believed in non-aggression pact? No. But there was no other way to act in the circumstances. I would like to tell more i don't believe you are after the truth. This is what propaganda is about - hiding facts, twisting truth, taking things out of context or just pure lie. We all live under propaganda. Tell me when you read anything good about Asad in Syria, or good about Putin or even Iran for that matter? This is propaganda. “The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.” ― Joseph Goebbels

Bootvis 13y ago

In the grand Nazi vision they would all have been killed.

oleganza 13y ago
So if you are to be killed by Hitler, it's okay if Stalin kills you to prevent that? What happened with "initiation of force is bad, period"? If there's no moral absolute, then there's no point in debating what's better and what's worse. It's just some atoms wobbling in the spacetime.
- tobiasu 13y ago
  Explain why someone should spend time debating with you?
- lmm 13y ago
  If Stalin was able to save the lives of 50 million people who would otherwise have died by killing 10 million of them (which I don't necessarily think is actually the case, but supposing it was), I call that a good act. "initiation of force is bad, period" is not a good moral philosophy.
  - lafar6502 13y ago
    Yeah, Stalin is a great savior of humanity. Let's give him a Nobel prize for killing only 10 million while he could easily kill everybody. Thank you for showing me the path of enlightened.
- Bootvis 13y ago
  That was not what I said, I said that Hitler was not a lesser evil than Stalin.
- democracy 13y ago
  You can't judge events of the past from todays norms of morale. And if you think you can - give me a name of a leader during first half of last century that was absolutely clean and innocent and whose decisions did not kill anyone.
  - oleganza 13y ago
    All political leaders are psychopathic manipulators and sadists. Normal, sane person would strive to avoid ordering one group of people to point guns at another group of people as a part of a Grand Plan. Normal person would use weapons and violence only as a last measure when all else didn't prevent getting him/her in that awful situation.

mlvljr 13y ago

Lesser evil for us? Not funny by any means.

democracy 13y ago

Who said they were criminals. They were elves who Stalin the Terrible sent there so that noone could stop him eating even more babies.

democracy 13y ago

This is not funny. In my country Belarus every fourth person was killed by Germans and collaborators, mostly civilians. Every family lost someone. Many lost everyone. Many cities and villages vanished. If you happen to be in Belarus visit Khatyn memorial or just watch "Come and see" movie. This is something you will never forget. http://khatyn.by/en/ http://khatyn.by/en/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091251/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091251/

lafar6502 13y ago
There's also an ugly angle to the 'Khatyn' story. http://www.the-tls.co.uk/tls/public/article1288564.ece http://www.the-tls.co.uk/tls/public/article1288564.ece I'm serious and not making fun of it.
- democracy 13y ago
  This story is a vomit full of lies. TIMOTHY SNYDER is a disgrace to Yale. Even the beginning of the article where he says "Soviets and Germans" were allies - he probably means "Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact". And then "Munich agreement" puts France and UK to the list of German allies too. Was it his intention? No. This is one big disgusting piece of propaganda that is probably ok for a CNN internetf-fact journalist (no one expects much from her), but not ok for a "professor of history".
  - lafar6502 13y ago
    Well, Ribbentrop-Molotov pact is not a lie, and Stalin's regime isn't a lie as well. 'Katyn' has been confirmed too, even by Russians (very reluctantly, however). I'm pretty sure you don't know what you are talking about, or you have been living under Soviet propaganda all your childhood.
    - democracy 13y ago
      Funny you didn't mention Munich agreement as well as the "professor" when this treaty casts shadow on UK and France. And then Molotov pacts is not a lie but a very smart move to try to gain time for the USSR after Europe was getting under Fascists with cheering . Stalin knew that Hitler is being pushed to the west, and the next Munich agreement would not be far. Stalin believed in non-aggression pact? No. But there was no other way to act in the circumstances. I would like to tell more i don't believe you are after the truth. This is what propaganda is about - hiding facts, twisting truth, taking things out of context or just pure lie. We all live under propaganda. Tell me when you read anything good about Asad in Syria, or good about Putin or even Iran for that matter? This is propaganda. “The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.” ― Joseph Goebbels