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From the thread: "recognize the difference between tolerated and allowed" What a horrible way of governing, almost worse than the US's state vs. federal legali

From the thread: "recognize the difference between tolerated and allowed" What a horrible way of governing, almost worse than the US's state vs. federal legality (at least it's officially "legal" on the state level and not just tolerated). Telling people that something is illegal but "tolerated" is a license for potential abuse by authorities. It essentially makes all prosecution a judgement call for individual authority figures. Sounds like a recipe for potential abuse to me.

fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
I agree with you completely. If my very shallow understanding of the issue is correct, I think it may be because US foreign policy strongly pushes drug prohibition with its trade partners. By keeping cannabis "illegal" nations get to sort of feign compliance with US demands while having as little domestic effect as possible.
- josefresco 13y ago
  Interesting, I didn't even think of that angle. Is there any reference to support this hypothesis? I would love to read more about how US foreign policy or aid potentially effects the laws of other countries. I could see the US getting involved with big drug export countries (e.g. Columbia) but I wonder how involved they are with others that don't play a large part in the global drug trade.
  - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
    >Is there any reference to support this hypothesis? There are anecdotes and news stories floating around. How close are they to the truth? I don't know.
Mvandenbergh 13y ago
Not really because the limits of what is and what is not tolerated are not arbitrarily decided by individuals. There are clearly understood and published local guidelines, effectively this is often an end-run around national level laws that the local community collectively chooses not to enforce. A prosecution brought against someone who was within the understood, tolerated guidelines wouldn't be successful because it would contravene the principle of the rule of law (quite central to Dutch political and judicial thinking). The crucial elements of the rule of law, predictability and detachment from individual judgement outside of established and controlled channels is maintained in the Dutch system because there exist universally understood and judicially binding methods of disseminating the local guidelines. I'll admit that it usually isn't explained very well because it's mostly lay Dutch people explaining their understanding. Notably, I've never heard of a case anywhere in the Netherlands where this principle has been abused.

fnordfnordfnord 13y ago

I agree with you completely. If my very shallow understanding of the issue is correct, I think it may be because US foreign policy strongly pushes drug prohibition with its trade partners. By keeping cannabis "illegal" nations get to sort of feign compliance with US demands while having as little domestic effect as possible.

josefresco 13y ago
Interesting, I didn't even think of that angle. Is there any reference to support this hypothesis? I would love to read more about how US foreign policy or aid potentially effects the laws of other countries. I could see the US getting involved with big drug export countries (e.g. Columbia) but I wonder how involved they are with others that don't play a large part in the global drug trade.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
  >Is there any reference to support this hypothesis? There are anecdotes and news stories floating around. How close are they to the truth? I don't know.

Mvandenbergh 13y ago

Not really because the limits of what is and what is not tolerated are not arbitrarily decided by individuals. There are clearly understood and published local guidelines, effectively this is often an end-run around national level laws that the local community collectively chooses not to enforce. A prosecution brought against someone who was within the understood, tolerated guidelines wouldn't be successful because it would contravene the principle of the rule of law (quite central to Dutch political and judicial thinking). The crucial elements of the rule of law, predictability and detachment from individual judgement outside of established and controlled channels is maintained in the Dutch system because there exist universally understood and judicially binding methods of disseminating the local guidelines. I'll admit that it usually isn't explained very well because it's mostly lay Dutch people explaining their understanding. Notably, I've never heard of a case anywhere in the Netherlands where this principle has been abused.