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Cats cannot play the simplest of games; does that mean that they do not have general purpose intelligence? And I do think this research is going to take us the

by ivanca 13y ago

Cats cannot play the simplest of games; does that mean that they do not have general purpose intelligence? And I do think this research is going to take us there; what is winning a game more than translating your enemy actions into yours? Like translating a face gesture on a poker game (or translating a word) into a action such as doubling inside the game (or a http response).

x3c 13y ago
Cats have limited intelligence but general purpose intelligence. Compare a kitten to a computer with computing power but without intelligence. Now kitten to cat maturity gives the animal a wisdom and intelligence. That maturity is in nowhere similar to Watson as a pure hardware (kitten) to Watson with software of AI (cat).
Ygg2 13y ago
Actually cats can play catch. So even by that definition they have some rudimentary intelligence. Cats aren't as intelligent as dogs, and they aren't social animals but they have some intelligence. They can learn on their own to navigate surroundings, move, catch prey and mate. I'd love to see Watson do any of these without pre programming.
- bnegreve 13y ago
  I've seen some people talking about how they taught their robot to play ping ping, it's pretty amazing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH3bADiB7uQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH3bADiB7uQ Edit: The speaker was Jan Peters at ECML/PKDD13
- catshirt 13y ago
  define "pre programming"? is a cat not pre-programmed to prey, mate, etc? also, by some of these definitions, sounds like my roomba approaches natural intelligence.
  - Ygg2 13y ago
    I doubt it is encoded much other than a set of few needs you need to fulfill. Keep in mind kittens pretty much suck at walking, balancing, but learn it eventually. They are not pre-programmed to fight no more they are pre-programmed to open doors. As for roomba, depends if you caught it fighting or mating with other roomba's ;)
- jjtheblunt 13y ago
  Rudimentary intelligence? How primate a thing to write. Cats and dogs are evolved with different priorities, as are primates, and have ingenuities that surprise one another, except when the others stop watching. I've seen cats learn how doors work by just watching, doorknobs, etc. They are clever, geometrically, but humans seem to resonate with the more vocal/verbal and generally cooperative nature of dogs, as it's a very primate characteristic.
  - Ygg2 13y ago
    Rudimentary intelligence, based on what my parent's written. I'm sure nearly all creatures have some rudimentary intelligence. I'm defininitely not classifying them on same level as worms or insects.
  - bad_user 13y ago
    I think this is because dogs are friendlier and more willing to learn from us, whereas cats are very selfish :) Either way, people claiming that either dogs or cats aren't very inteligent haven't lived with one. It is true that it is not human intelligence, but personally I feel that the only piece missing is natural language, which if you think about it is the only distinctive trait separating us from primates. And this will be the ultimate test for AI, the ability of a computer to have a meaningful conversation with a human.
    - Ygg2 13y ago
      I think dogs are more intelligent BECAUSE they are social animals. Social animals need to do everything a solitary animal does + ability to know what his peers are thinking or about to do in order to coordinate. Dogs can fake emotion (ever been bitten by a dog that waggles his tail?), know what appeals to humans(sending cutest or most wounded pup to beg for food), understand how subway works, etc. Cats have greater independence, but overall aren't as clever. Crows and killer whales, now those fuckers are intelligent. The only thing exceptional about human mind is the ability to be EXTREME in every aspects of our mind. Most creatures can do same as we, but we do it to a higher degree.
- vidarh 13y ago
  > they aren't social animals You haven't spent much time around cats (or haven't paid attention) if you think they aren't social animals. Our various cats when I grew up would bring "friends" around - cats of both genders that they played with, and who would be allowed into our garden. Some of them were "introduced" to us - our cat would walk up to us with his friend in tow and stay until we'd pet his friend. You'd often find them lying on our patio together during the summer. They'd also occasionally groom each other. Our current neighbours oldest male cat sometimes "walks" the two young cats she recently got around the neighbourhood.
  - Ygg2 13y ago
    You misunderstood me, cats aren't social animals as in domesticated cats and their descendents aren't likely to form a and hunt in a group. The main majority of their life is spent in solitude. Cats do need contact, but most contacts in 'wild' (i.e. without human supervision) is spent either fighting or mating, not socializing for some benefits. Humans kinda forced the whole social aspect of their lives. I read somewhere that cat holding tail upward is a new construct of cats. It's usually used by kittens around their momma. The behavior you describe is more unique. Here where I am two cats are no way likely to sleep near each other. Basically they might sleep at least two feet distance. Most contacts are violent.
- kamaal 13y ago
  >>I'd love to see Watson do any of these without pre programming. I'd love to see a Human do anything without any kind of pre programming(I mean without giving it the knowledge and training it to use that knowledge). If I take a tribal person from a amazon jungle who hasn't seen the outside world ever and disclose him the rules of playing chess, will he able to play as well as Gary Kasparov in a few minutes? Or if say I disclose the usage of a paint brush and paint, can he paint like Michelangelo or Da Vinci? Each human is a self learning self programming machine. Humans, including us can do so many things only because our brains are getting programmed with information every single moment and are being told how to act on that information.
  - Ygg2 13y ago
    Problem with your description is that given if you take a human from jungle and leave it in New York, if he understands language he'll be able to function on at least some level. In same manner, if you take Watson and for example change format of questions (they are still asked in plain English, just rephrased) and way Daily bonus prize functions, he won't be able to function without some human coming in and tweaking it. You generally don't have to open head of a human, rewire their brains and then send them to do another task. They adapt. Autonomously. It's like if software could auto investigate sites for weather API and adapt to it, instead of having a human come and rewire API adapters.
arethuza 13y ago
Well, our cats can play fetch - does that count? On the subject of the "game" of fetch - it turns out that dogs can actually show some fairly sophisticated behavior when playing fetch: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetch_%28game%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetch_%28game%29 [NB They are Burmese - quite dog like cats and still behaving like overgrown kittens even though they are 8 years old.]
- jjtheblunt 13y ago
  that's quite normal among hundreds or thousands of cats i've been around, as I used to volunteer with rescued animals. breed didn't seem correlated.
xerophtye 13y ago
Any cat owner would know that cats are actually smart enough to train YOU rather than the other way around. So i personally feel that you might be underestimating cat intelligence. The fundamental difference i feel they have with our AI programs is their general purpose ability to learn whatever concerns them. Like cats observing human behaviour patterns and learning a ton of things from them, even how to open doors etc.

by ivanca 13y ago

x3c 13y ago

Cats have limited intelligence but general purpose intelligence. Compare a kitten to a computer with computing power but without intelligence. Now kitten to cat maturity gives the animal a wisdom and intelligence. That maturity is in nowhere similar to Watson as a pure hardware (kitten) to Watson with software of AI (cat).

Ygg2 13y ago

Actually cats can play catch. So even by that definition they have some rudimentary intelligence. Cats aren't as intelligent as dogs, and they aren't social animals but they have some intelligence. They can learn on their own to navigate surroundings, move, catch prey and mate. I'd love to see Watson do any of these without pre programming.

bnegreve 13y ago
I've seen some people talking about how they taught their robot to play ping ping, it's pretty amazing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH3bADiB7uQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH3bADiB7uQ Edit: The speaker was Jan Peters at ECML/PKDD13
catshirt 13y ago
define "pre programming"? is a cat not pre-programmed to prey, mate, etc? also, by some of these definitions, sounds like my roomba approaches natural intelligence.
- Ygg2 13y ago
  I doubt it is encoded much other than a set of few needs you need to fulfill. Keep in mind kittens pretty much suck at walking, balancing, but learn it eventually. They are not pre-programmed to fight no more they are pre-programmed to open doors. As for roomba, depends if you caught it fighting or mating with other roomba's ;)
jjtheblunt 13y ago
Rudimentary intelligence? How primate a thing to write. Cats and dogs are evolved with different priorities, as are primates, and have ingenuities that surprise one another, except when the others stop watching. I've seen cats learn how doors work by just watching, doorknobs, etc. They are clever, geometrically, but humans seem to resonate with the more vocal/verbal and generally cooperative nature of dogs, as it's a very primate characteristic.
- Ygg2 13y ago
  Rudimentary intelligence, based on what my parent's written. I'm sure nearly all creatures have some rudimentary intelligence. I'm defininitely not classifying them on same level as worms or insects.
- bad_user 13y ago
  I think this is because dogs are friendlier and more willing to learn from us, whereas cats are very selfish :) Either way, people claiming that either dogs or cats aren't very inteligent haven't lived with one. It is true that it is not human intelligence, but personally I feel that the only piece missing is natural language, which if you think about it is the only distinctive trait separating us from primates. And this will be the ultimate test for AI, the ability of a computer to have a meaningful conversation with a human.
  - Ygg2 13y ago
    I think dogs are more intelligent BECAUSE they are social animals. Social animals need to do everything a solitary animal does + ability to know what his peers are thinking or about to do in order to coordinate. Dogs can fake emotion (ever been bitten by a dog that waggles his tail?), know what appeals to humans(sending cutest or most wounded pup to beg for food), understand how subway works, etc. Cats have greater independence, but overall aren't as clever. Crows and killer whales, now those fuckers are intelligent. The only thing exceptional about human mind is the ability to be EXTREME in every aspects of our mind. Most creatures can do same as we, but we do it to a higher degree.
vidarh 13y ago
> they aren't social animals You haven't spent much time around cats (or haven't paid attention) if you think they aren't social animals. Our various cats when I grew up would bring "friends" around - cats of both genders that they played with, and who would be allowed into our garden. Some of them were "introduced" to us - our cat would walk up to us with his friend in tow and stay until we'd pet his friend. You'd often find them lying on our patio together during the summer. They'd also occasionally groom each other. Our current neighbours oldest male cat sometimes "walks" the two young cats she recently got around the neighbourhood.
- Ygg2 13y ago
  You misunderstood me, cats aren't social animals as in domesticated cats and their descendents aren't likely to form a and hunt in a group. The main majority of their life is spent in solitude. Cats do need contact, but most contacts in 'wild' (i.e. without human supervision) is spent either fighting or mating, not socializing for some benefits. Humans kinda forced the whole social aspect of their lives. I read somewhere that cat holding tail upward is a new construct of cats. It's usually used by kittens around their momma. The behavior you describe is more unique. Here where I am two cats are no way likely to sleep near each other. Basically they might sleep at least two feet distance. Most contacts are violent.
kamaal 13y ago
>>I'd love to see Watson do any of these without pre programming. I'd love to see a Human do anything without any kind of pre programming(I mean without giving it the knowledge and training it to use that knowledge). If I take a tribal person from a amazon jungle who hasn't seen the outside world ever and disclose him the rules of playing chess, will he able to play as well as Gary Kasparov in a few minutes? Or if say I disclose the usage of a paint brush and paint, can he paint like Michelangelo or Da Vinci? Each human is a self learning self programming machine. Humans, including us can do so many things only because our brains are getting programmed with information every single moment and are being told how to act on that information.
- Ygg2 13y ago
  Problem with your description is that given if you take a human from jungle and leave it in New York, if he understands language he'll be able to function on at least some level. In same manner, if you take Watson and for example change format of questions (they are still asked in plain English, just rephrased) and way Daily bonus prize functions, he won't be able to function without some human coming in and tweaking it. You generally don't have to open head of a human, rewire their brains and then send them to do another task. They adapt. Autonomously. It's like if software could auto investigate sites for weather API and adapt to it, instead of having a human come and rewire API adapters.

arethuza 13y ago

Well, our cats can play fetch - does that count? On the subject of the "game" of fetch - it turns out that dogs can actually show some fairly sophisticated behavior when playing fetch: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetch_%28game%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetch_%28game%29 [NB They are Burmese - quite dog like cats and still behaving like overgrown kittens even though they are 8 years old.]

jjtheblunt 13y ago
that's quite normal among hundreds or thousands of cats i've been around, as I used to volunteer with rescued animals. breed didn't seem correlated.

xerophtye 13y ago

Any cat owner would know that cats are actually smart enough to train YOU rather than the other way around. So i personally feel that you might be underestimating cat intelligence. The fundamental difference i feel they have with our AI programs is their general purpose ability to learn whatever concerns them. Like cats observing human behaviour patterns and learning a ton of things from them, even how to open doors etc.