7 ms·

Why don't we (as the hacker/programmer community) also "fight back" in the meaningful & legal way that is our core strength? Resolve to push for encryption if

Why don't we (as the hacker/programmer community) also "fight back" in the meaningful & legal way that is our core strength? Resolve to push for encryption if there is any PII data in an app that you work with especially if it is a e-mail/mobile/social app. at scale Refuse to work with/at NSA until their policies change Refuse to participate in any committee/standards body, conferences, with NSA employees (or their cohort companies who have willingly forsaken the public's interests) Encourage non-tech folks to adopt stronger privacy practices etc etc...

cLeEOGPw 13y ago
> Refuse to work with/at NSA until their policies change Don't agree with this. Boycotts relying on cooperation and trust between unorganized members are doomed to fail and only hurts those that take part in such boycott.
- ElDiablo666 13y ago
  There's also such a thing as having a conscience. I agree that organizing and solidarity are necessary for effective political action but let's not discount the power of resistance against the moral turpitude of the day.
  - mjolk 13y ago
    I'm not going to jail due to fighting the government about disclosure of the users of my dumb smartphone game. It's fun to play the moral high ground, but let's not pretend we're the bastions of society because we encrypt user data.
- higherpurpose 13y ago
  So you think that after you join NSA, you'd participate in such a boycott against NSA? Or will you be even more terrified about losing the job you've already gotten, and try to be on the "safe side" as much as possible to keep your job?
  - mjolk 13y ago
    If when you join a company, you lose your personal identity, your employer has gotten a bargain on your hourly rate. There will always be another job.
mjolk 13y ago
>Refuse to work with/at NSA until their policies change When the NSA demands your data, you're not really entering a business partnership. >Refuse to participate in any committee/standards body, conferences, with NSA employees (or their cohort companies who have willingly forsaken the public's interests) That said, if you're part a committee or a standards body and you have opinions, the only way that you'll get your changes in place is if you show up.
- ef4 13y ago
  > When the NSA demands your data, you're not really entering a business partnership. True, but I saw the original comment as relating more to recruiting. The NSA works just as hard as any tech company to compete for skilled employees. If you're the kind of person they want to hire, you have lots of fantastic other choices. So choose something else. Unless you're planning to pull a Snowden (and have gonads of steel). And if you do decide to help code the surveillance state, the rest of us may take that into consideration in future hiring, buying, and investing decisions.
  - chronic25 13y ago
    And there are tens of thousands of skilled applicants willing to work for the NSA even if a thousand turn them down due to their policies.
  - mjolk 13y ago
    >If you're the kind of person they want to hire, you have lots of fantastic other choices. So choose something else. I am the kind of person they'd want to hire and what has kept me from applying is the relative low pay and not being in my area. As an engineer, you'd get access to cool tech in an interesting domain. >And if you do decide to help code the surveillance state, the rest of us may take that into consideration in future hiring, buying, and investing decisions. Really? Because you don't use Amazon, Microsoft, Google? You wouldn't hire a qualified candidate if she had worked at the NSA?
    - bostonvaulter2 13y ago
7952 13y ago
I think it would be hard to build a movement around the things you list. The core competency of the hacker/programmer community is technical and a lot of the technical solutions tend to have significant difficulties in implementation (such as email encryption). Why not focus on a very limited number of simple to understand technical goals. For example, you could advocate the creation of private encrypted tunnels between large corporate networks. So that all traffic is routed by default over a VPN if such a route exists. This lets encryption be a compliance issue for an IT department rather than a user level app problem.

cLeEOGPw 13y ago

> Refuse to work with/at NSA until their policies change Don't agree with this. Boycotts relying on cooperation and trust between unorganized members are doomed to fail and only hurts those that take part in such boycott.

ElDiablo666 13y ago
There's also such a thing as having a conscience. I agree that organizing and solidarity are necessary for effective political action but let's not discount the power of resistance against the moral turpitude of the day.
- mjolk 13y ago
  I'm not going to jail due to fighting the government about disclosure of the users of my dumb smartphone game. It's fun to play the moral high ground, but let's not pretend we're the bastions of society because we encrypt user data.
higherpurpose 13y ago
So you think that after you join NSA, you'd participate in such a boycott against NSA? Or will you be even more terrified about losing the job you've already gotten, and try to be on the "safe side" as much as possible to keep your job?
- mjolk 13y ago
  If when you join a company, you lose your personal identity, your employer has gotten a bargain on your hourly rate. There will always be another job.

mjolk 13y ago

>Refuse to work with/at NSA until their policies change When the NSA demands your data, you're not really entering a business partnership. >Refuse to participate in any committee/standards body, conferences, with NSA employees (or their cohort companies who have willingly forsaken the public's interests) That said, if you're part a committee or a standards body and you have opinions, the only way that you'll get your changes in place is if you show up.

ef4 13y ago
> When the NSA demands your data, you're not really entering a business partnership. True, but I saw the original comment as relating more to recruiting. The NSA works just as hard as any tech company to compete for skilled employees. If you're the kind of person they want to hire, you have lots of fantastic other choices. So choose something else. Unless you're planning to pull a Snowden (and have gonads of steel). And if you do decide to help code the surveillance state, the rest of us may take that into consideration in future hiring, buying, and investing decisions.
- chronic25 13y ago
  And there are tens of thousands of skilled applicants willing to work for the NSA even if a thousand turn them down due to their policies.
- mjolk 13y ago
  >If you're the kind of person they want to hire, you have lots of fantastic other choices. So choose something else. I am the kind of person they'd want to hire and what has kept me from applying is the relative low pay and not being in my area. As an engineer, you'd get access to cool tech in an interesting domain. >And if you do decide to help code the surveillance state, the rest of us may take that into consideration in future hiring, buying, and investing decisions. Really? Because you don't use Amazon, Microsoft, Google? You wouldn't hire a qualified candidate if she had worked at the NSA?
  - bostonvaulter2 13y ago

7952 13y ago

I think it would be hard to build a movement around the things you list. The core competency of the hacker/programmer community is technical and a lot of the technical solutions tend to have significant difficulties in implementation (such as email encryption). Why not focus on a very limited number of simple to understand technical goals. For example, you could advocate the creation of private encrypted tunnels between large corporate networks. So that all traffic is routed by default over a VPN if such a route exists. This lets encryption be a compliance issue for an IT department rather than a user level app problem.