6 ms·

The Tragedy of Mathematics In Russia

64 points by kamaal 13y ago

stefantalpalaru 13y ago
Here's a summary of the events: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Luzin#The_Luzin_affair_of_1936 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Luzin#The_Luzin_affair_...
huhtenberg 13y ago
Don't forget that the context was that of the Great Purge of '37. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge They would take random people make up absolutely ludicrous accusations, hand out heavy sentences and send them to labor camps. Just for giggles and shit, basically. That was a dark, rotten time. They fostered the norm of everyone ratting on everyone and, disgustingly, to a degree it worked. The running joke was that after a neighbor dinner party NKVD (KGB's predecessor) always received comprehensive reports on what was discussed, from every guest. So it wasn't just the mathematics. If someone had an inclination towards unethical and predatory behavior, that was the most fertile time to act on it and a bit too many people actually did. Those were the dark times really.
- democracy 13y ago
  1. Hitler said that Stalin would never be able to stop Nazi if he still had his "tzar generals" - nickname for those military highranks executed in 37. 2. Kanaris (nazi intelligence director) said after 37 their spy network didn't exist any more in Russia. While you can't deny that there were innocent cases, one can't deny that many people were sued for a reason, as Stalin knew the war was inevitable and was doing anything to support the state. Another interesting story is that as a spy you could get a smaller term than for some other crimes, so criminals happily became spies and local authorities happily reported their success to Moscow. As for "dark rotten times", in the 20's Stalin was talking to English ambassador who asked Stalin if there would be a world war and Stalin replied that there would be a war and it would be much worse as with Germany, Japan would also attack from the east. All actions of 20-30s and Stalin's decisions should be estimated from the war preparations that started in the early 20s. Young Soviet country didn't have friends and did everything it could to survive. Were Stalin's methods brutal and inhuman? Probably. Would civilization as we know it exist now if Hitler managed to get rich Russian resources? No. So sometimes ends justify means. Just my point of view based on numerous historical books I read.
  - lafar6502 13y ago
    Yeah, millions of people that died in Siberia were there for a reason. They must have been criminals, otherwise good father Stalin wouldn't imprison them. Yeah, of course. But I'm pretty sure Hitler's victory would be a lesser evil for USSR and neighboring countries.
    - Bootvis 13y ago
      In the grand Nazi vision they would all have been killed.
      - oleganza 13y ago
        So if you are to be killed by Hitler, it's okay if Stalin kills you to prevent that? What happened with "initiation of force is bad, period"? If there's no moral absolute, then there's no point in debating what's better and what's worse. It's just some atoms wobbling in the spacetime.
        tobiasu 13y ago
        Explain why someone should spend time debating with you?
        lmm 13y ago
        If Stalin was able to save the lives of 50 million people who would otherwise have died by killing 10 million of them (which I don't necessarily think is actually the case, but supposing it was), I call that a good act. "initiation of force is bad, period" is not a good moral philosophy.
        lafar6502 13y ago
        Yeah, Stalin is a great savior of humanity. Let's give him a Nobel prize for killing only 10 million while he could easily kill everybody. Thank you for showing me the path of enlightened.
        13y ago
jseliger 13y ago
Although the Luzin affair is more serious, the institutional problems with Soviety math remained at least up to the '80s; Edward Frenkel's recent book Love and Math: The Heart of a Hidden Reality discusses the anti-Semitism that kept him and other Jews from top schools and positions. In his case, the opening and then crumbling of the Soviet Union got him out, but the book itself is worth reading. (I wrote a little about it here: http://jseliger.wordpress.com/2013/11/03/love-and-math-the-heart-of-hidden-reality-edward-frenkel/ http://jseliger.wordpress.com/2013/11/03/love-and-math-the-h...).

64 points by kamaal 13y ago

Here's a summary of the events: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Luzin#The_Luzin_affair_of_1936 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Luzin#The_Luzin_affair_...

huhtenberg 13y ago

Don't forget that the context was that of the Great Purge of '37. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge They would take random people make up absolutely ludicrous accusations, hand out heavy sentences and send them to labor camps. Just for giggles and shit, basically. That was a dark, rotten time. They fostered the norm of everyone ratting on everyone and, disgustingly, to a degree it worked. The running joke was that after a neighbor dinner party NKVD (KGB's predecessor) always received comprehensive reports on what was discussed, from every guest. So it wasn't just the mathematics. If someone had an inclination towards unethical and predatory behavior, that was the most fertile time to act on it and a bit too many people actually did. Those were the dark times really.

democracy 13y ago
1. Hitler said that Stalin would never be able to stop Nazi if he still had his "tzar generals" - nickname for those military highranks executed in 37. 2. Kanaris (nazi intelligence director) said after 37 their spy network didn't exist any more in Russia. While you can't deny that there were innocent cases, one can't deny that many people were sued for a reason, as Stalin knew the war was inevitable and was doing anything to support the state. Another interesting story is that as a spy you could get a smaller term than for some other crimes, so criminals happily became spies and local authorities happily reported their success to Moscow. As for "dark rotten times", in the 20's Stalin was talking to English ambassador who asked Stalin if there would be a world war and Stalin replied that there would be a war and it would be much worse as with Germany, Japan would also attack from the east. All actions of 20-30s and Stalin's decisions should be estimated from the war preparations that started in the early 20s. Young Soviet country didn't have friends and did everything it could to survive. Were Stalin's methods brutal and inhuman? Probably. Would civilization as we know it exist now if Hitler managed to get rich Russian resources? No. So sometimes ends justify means. Just my point of view based on numerous historical books I read.
- lafar6502 13y ago
  Yeah, millions of people that died in Siberia were there for a reason. They must have been criminals, otherwise good father Stalin wouldn't imprison them. Yeah, of course. But I'm pretty sure Hitler's victory would be a lesser evil for USSR and neighboring countries.
  - Bootvis 13y ago
    In the grand Nazi vision they would all have been killed.
    - oleganza 13y ago
      So if you are to be killed by Hitler, it's okay if Stalin kills you to prevent that? What happened with "initiation of force is bad, period"? If there's no moral absolute, then there's no point in debating what's better and what's worse. It's just some atoms wobbling in the spacetime.
      - tobiasu 13y ago
        Explain why someone should spend time debating with you?
      - lmm 13y ago
        If Stalin was able to save the lives of 50 million people who would otherwise have died by killing 10 million of them (which I don't necessarily think is actually the case, but supposing it was), I call that a good act. "initiation of force is bad, period" is not a good moral philosophy.
        lafar6502 13y ago
        Yeah, Stalin is a great savior of humanity. Let's give him a Nobel prize for killing only 10 million while he could easily kill everybody. Thank you for showing me the path of enlightened.
      - 13y ago

jseliger 13y ago

Although the Luzin affair is more serious, the institutional problems with Soviety math remained at least up to the '80s; Edward Frenkel's recent book Love and Math: The Heart of a Hidden Reality discusses the anti-Semitism that kept him and other Jews from top schools and positions. In his case, the opening and then crumbling of the Soviet Union got him out, but the book itself is worth reading. (I wrote a little about it here: http://jseliger.wordpress.com/2013/11/03/love-and-math-the-heart-of-hidden-reality-edward-frenkel/ http://jseliger.wordpress.com/2013/11/03/love-and-math-the-h...).