5 ms·

Very sorry. Speaking from experience, this is exactly how it is. When there's a serious medical situation, the focus is necessarily on the bills. They even send

by benched 13y ago

Very sorry. Speaking from experience, this is exactly how it is. When there's a serious medical situation, the focus is necessarily on the bills. They even send you separate envelopes for every little line item and provider, staggered over time, even more than a year after the service, so you can never stop thinking about it. Always fearing opening the mailbox, having to deal with confusing hard to reconcile charges, trying to catch double-billing, dealing with payments to multiple providers. The stress of the bills can easily make the illness worse. The US is truly a barbaric system. But it has this small bubble of well-off people, who have a disproportionate platform for their propaganda, so you can get this public picture that everything is great. Everyone beams smiles in the commercials, consuming the miracle products. The well-off only associate with others who are well-off, so they can pat each other on the back and say "What a country! All this opportunity for those with the right sort of character, like us!"

lotharbot 13y ago
> "you can get this public picture that everything is great" I'm not aware of anyone, from any political background, who thinks the US system is anything above "pretty crappy". I've heard some people express positive sentiments regarding small parts of the system -- the quality of certain types of care, for example -- but never for the system as a whole. The primary disagreements I'm aware of concern how to fix the current worst-of-both-worlds system. Do we put it entirely in government hands? Do we enact more regulations to try to force down costs? Do we remove or relax regulations that appear to drive up costs? How do we create transparency in pricing? How do we respond to innovative groups like Qliance? How should we balance the role of government, individuals, families, employers, and charity in health care? Do not mistake disagreement on how to answer those questions as support for the current system.
- lucisferre 13y ago
  You would be surprised. It wasn't long ago when I met an intelligent and otherwise very well informed American who truly believed that the "socialized" Canadian healthcare system was a 3rd rate disaster and feared any change to the precious US system would lead to a similar situation. Don't get me wrong he acknowledged it wasn't great, but there is more than sufficient doubt and confusion amongst most Americans with regards to what the actual problem is an how to fix it to prevent any kind of attempt and changing things.
  - jwdunne 13y ago
    I'm from the UK. The NHS is shambles and is spread very, very thin. Doctors are pissed off. Patients are pissed off. The government seems to be too. However I would prefer the 3 hour A&E (ER) waiting times, being spoken to like shit if it isn't as serious as originally thought and epic waiting lists for outpatient services than having companies profit from my health and the massive vulnerability that puts me in (on top of just bad health). Even for all the bad of the NHS, when things really to hit the fan, I can be sure I get seen to ASAP when it is deadly serious. Just last month my pregnant fiancée was very ill with an infection and she was examined straight away at A&E, bypassing the 3 hour waiting time. It's for cases like here that the 3 hour wait is in place. There was no cost to me for any of that, perhaps except national insurance which is very small payments out of my pay packet each month a d the £7 for the course of anti-biotics The real problem is how do we adequately reward doctors who spend such a massive amount of effort and time not just in school but in work? The NYS cannot do this, there are targets like "15 mins per patient on ward rounds". Each doctor needs to spend 10 years in the NHS before private practice. How is a system like this sustainable with a massive budget deficit to boot and government that would like to see its end?
    - arethuza 13y ago
      "The NHS is shambles" In 2013 my son received treatment from NHS Scotland for a very serious eye infection and, later on, a nasty shoulder injury - in both cases the care was fantastic and even though I have private health insurance I never thought about using it. I know lots of people have problems with the NHS (a few years back my wife got some care that was less than "caring" - but that seemed to be a staff problem) but generally the experiences of our family has been excellent.
      - jdswain 13y ago
        In my experience the location matters. I sprained my ankle in Edinburgh once, and the hospital visit was almost enjoyable. The staff were great. Where I live in London, it's not so great. They have to deal with a lot of annoying drunks and are overworked, but also the place was just not very clean. Our local A&E is closing down too.
- mikeash 13y ago
  "The best health care system in the world" is a pretty common refrain among American right wingers. Many of them truly think that we are #1 in this area and that the great tragedy of socialization will be destroying that.
  - lotharbot 13y ago
    > ""The best health care system in the world" is a pretty common refrain among American right wingers" In my experience, the right wing perspective is more like "some of the best health care procedures, embedded in a payment/distribution/insurance system that sucks". One of the biggest fears is that the few things American healthcare does well will be sacrificed, and the things that are wrong with the system won't actually be fixed, the costs will just be shuffled around and hidden a bit better.
    - mikeash 13y ago
      The two aren't incompatible. I agree with you about the details of the views, but they still generally think it's the best in the world.
      - lotharbot 13y ago
        Right, but I think "best in the world" is more a negative comment about other systems being terrible than a positive comment about this system being actually good.
        mikeash 13y ago
        My experience is that the system outside of payments and such is seen as superb (when it's actually average), and the rest is seen as OKish (when it's terrifyingly bad). I was discussing health care reform with one fellow who was under the mistaken impression that outcomes in the US were significantly better. After I explained that people in countries with socialized medicine get care that's just as good as ours, he asked me, "OK, but then why do we need to change anything?" He really thought that the current system, if not great, was still perfectly fine. I've seen that a lot. There is, no doubt, a wide spectrum of beliefs. But don't underestimate the number of people who think the system is pretty good overall. Really, just look at the total lack of any credible alternative reform put forth by the right wing. They talk big, but they don't seem to come up with anything beyond "leave it alone". They're stuck in kind of a tough position, because they've been advocating government non-interference and free-market solutions for so long, yet they're not in a place where it's acceptable to say that poor people should die in the streets from treatable conditions, even though that's what a free market solution gives you. As a result, there's a huge incentive to convince people that the way things are right now is just fine.

by benched 13y ago

lotharbot 13y ago

> "you can get this public picture that everything is great" I'm not aware of anyone, from any political background, who thinks the US system is anything above "pretty crappy". I've heard some people express positive sentiments regarding small parts of the system -- the quality of certain types of care, for example -- but never for the system as a whole. The primary disagreements I'm aware of concern how to fix the current worst-of-both-worlds system. Do we put it entirely in government hands? Do we enact more regulations to try to force down costs? Do we remove or relax regulations that appear to drive up costs? How do we create transparency in pricing? How do we respond to innovative groups like Qliance? How should we balance the role of government, individuals, families, employers, and charity in health care? Do not mistake disagreement on how to answer those questions as support for the current system.

lucisferre 13y ago
You would be surprised. It wasn't long ago when I met an intelligent and otherwise very well informed American who truly believed that the "socialized" Canadian healthcare system was a 3rd rate disaster and feared any change to the precious US system would lead to a similar situation. Don't get me wrong he acknowledged it wasn't great, but there is more than sufficient doubt and confusion amongst most Americans with regards to what the actual problem is an how to fix it to prevent any kind of attempt and changing things.
- jwdunne 13y ago
  I'm from the UK. The NHS is shambles and is spread very, very thin. Doctors are pissed off. Patients are pissed off. The government seems to be too. However I would prefer the 3 hour A&E (ER) waiting times, being spoken to like shit if it isn't as serious as originally thought and epic waiting lists for outpatient services than having companies profit from my health and the massive vulnerability that puts me in (on top of just bad health). Even for all the bad of the NHS, when things really to hit the fan, I can be sure I get seen to ASAP when it is deadly serious. Just last month my pregnant fiancée was very ill with an infection and she was examined straight away at A&E, bypassing the 3 hour waiting time. It's for cases like here that the 3 hour wait is in place. There was no cost to me for any of that, perhaps except national insurance which is very small payments out of my pay packet each month a d the £7 for the course of anti-biotics The real problem is how do we adequately reward doctors who spend such a massive amount of effort and time not just in school but in work? The NYS cannot do this, there are targets like "15 mins per patient on ward rounds". Each doctor needs to spend 10 years in the NHS before private practice. How is a system like this sustainable with a massive budget deficit to boot and government that would like to see its end?
  - arethuza 13y ago
    "The NHS is shambles" In 2013 my son received treatment from NHS Scotland for a very serious eye infection and, later on, a nasty shoulder injury - in both cases the care was fantastic and even though I have private health insurance I never thought about using it. I know lots of people have problems with the NHS (a few years back my wife got some care that was less than "caring" - but that seemed to be a staff problem) but generally the experiences of our family has been excellent.
    - jdswain 13y ago
      In my experience the location matters. I sprained my ankle in Edinburgh once, and the hospital visit was almost enjoyable. The staff were great. Where I live in London, it's not so great. They have to deal with a lot of annoying drunks and are overworked, but also the place was just not very clean. Our local A&E is closing down too.
mikeash 13y ago
"The best health care system in the world" is a pretty common refrain among American right wingers. Many of them truly think that we are #1 in this area and that the great tragedy of socialization will be destroying that.
- lotharbot 13y ago
  > ""The best health care system in the world" is a pretty common refrain among American right wingers" In my experience, the right wing perspective is more like "some of the best health care procedures, embedded in a payment/distribution/insurance system that sucks". One of the biggest fears is that the few things American healthcare does well will be sacrificed, and the things that are wrong with the system won't actually be fixed, the costs will just be shuffled around and hidden a bit better.
  - mikeash 13y ago
    The two aren't incompatible. I agree with you about the details of the views, but they still generally think it's the best in the world.
    - lotharbot 13y ago
      Right, but I think "best in the world" is more a negative comment about other systems being terrible than a positive comment about this system being actually good.
      - mikeash 13y ago
        My experience is that the system outside of payments and such is seen as superb (when it's actually average), and the rest is seen as OKish (when it's terrifyingly bad). I was discussing health care reform with one fellow who was under the mistaken impression that outcomes in the US were significantly better. After I explained that people in countries with socialized medicine get care that's just as good as ours, he asked me, "OK, but then why do we need to change anything?" He really thought that the current system, if not great, was still perfectly fine. I've seen that a lot. There is, no doubt, a wide spectrum of beliefs. But don't underestimate the number of people who think the system is pretty good overall. Really, just look at the total lack of any credible alternative reform put forth by the right wing. They talk big, but they don't seem to come up with anything beyond "leave it alone". They're stuck in kind of a tough position, because they've been advocating government non-interference and free-market solutions for so long, yet they're not in a place where it's acceptable to say that poor people should die in the streets from treatable conditions, even though that's what a free market solution gives you. As a result, there's a huge incentive to convince people that the way things are right now is just fine.