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Here come the faith bearing apologists who take believing what you see as faith, and then somehow twist that into making it ok to believe things you cannot see.
by leobelle 13y ago
Here come the faith bearing apologists who take believing what you see as faith, and then somehow twist that into making it ok to believe things you cannot see. Because it's all faith.
When someone does this, you've encountered someone with a broken brain. Someone incapable of critical thought and meaningful dialog.
Faith is not ok. Faith is a really bad way to come to conclusions. Faith is a measure of last resort. If people who believe in the supernatural had anything other than faith to cling to to validate their beliefs they would jump on it. Instead all they have is faith. All hundreds of thousands of belief systems out there with completely contradictory beliefs using the same flawed faith mechanism to live their life.
You talk to Christian apologists, as an example, for any amount of time you get all kinds of nonsensical rubbish that sounds like they're validating their beliefs on eye-witness testimony from people long dead, to validate a belief that heaps and mountains of empirical evidence you yourself can verify contradict. It's like you wouldn't believe a living, breathing witness in court if their testimony contradicted a DNA result, a single piece of evidence. Yet happy feeling supernatural mumble jumbled about being able to come back from the dead because some people thousands of years ago said they saw someone come back from the dead is ok? No, that's them relying on faith.
Faith is bad. You don't use it to fix real world problems. And no heuristics are not the same as faith, so don't go there.
Anyway, these people will use their keyboards and talk here about all kinds of things, but you know, press them and their mental gymnastics will fall like a house of cards, exposing their flawed mental states.
Empiricism doesn't require faith, and faith is a bad thing. Avoid faith whenever possible. Use a heuristic, and verify when you have the time, make sure it's sound.
- pfortuny 13y agoOh, wait, you are inducing quite a few things about me. And the word "heuristics" is as meaningless to real knowldge as "pincarpion", by the way. Mhhhh.
- leobelle 13y ago> And the word "heuristics" is as meaningless to real knowldge as "pincarpion", by the way. And there you have it. pfortuny has declared"heuristics" in quotes and meaningless. Let's all black out that word with a felt tip marker in our dictionary. If you didn't have enough reasons to already not find pfortuny as credible, well now you have another.
- pfortuny 13y ago? So this personal attack is related to? But health and wisdom to you too. And by the way, what does 'heuristic' have to do with 'truth'?
- leobelle 13y agoIt's not an attack on your person, I've simply revealed your lack of credibility. You are not applying critical thinking. Don't be upset about it, if you were thinking critically you wouldn't be an apologist. As a person you may just be nice enough to hang out with, but you talking about faith and religion will not work out. You're not geared up for the fight. You haven't a proper baloney detection kit.
- andrewflnr 13y agoIf you're acting on the results of your heuristic, without being completely sure, that neatly fits my definition of faith. This whole topic is arguably one of mismatched definitions. You're backlashing against other people's bad logic, and in so doing letting it cloud your own thinking.
- leobelle 13y agoYour definition of faith is so large to allow you to believe anything and you will end up deluded as a result.
- andrewflnr 13y agoUm, not really. If I act on my "faith" that I can fly off rooftops, I will die. That doesn't strictly prevent me from doing so, but that's probably not what you mean when you say "believe anything". If I say I believe I can fly but refuse to actually jump off a roof, you can pretty safely call me a liar. Practically and biblically, faith is defined by action. Anything else is probably just smoke.
- leobelle 13y agoYou have written a bunch of nonsense. And of course you won't ever believe that you can fly off of rooftops, because it will be immediately apparent that you cannot do so. It's the same why nobody believes God will ever heal amputees. Nobody prays in public for someone who's lost an arm to grow one back. But vague beliefs where you can fudge the truth a bit with a little religious delusion, sure you believe that stuff. Now let's go all laugh at the Flat Earth Society.
- zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 13y agoThis topic has lots of problems with mismatched definitions, but there is an actual problem hidden in all of that - namely, one side tends to use inconsistent definitions, while the other does not. Your definition of "faith" for example seems to be "anything you believe even though you are not completely sure about it"? By that definition, some fundamentalist's belief in god is not faith, but when some physicist tells you that some house exists, say, then that is faith? Sounds like a pretty useless definition to me - plus I doubt that that is the actual definition you use, outside of providing a definition?