6 ms·

That article you posted is silly. Regarding the first paragraph: well of course these are going to be literally translated; why would you not translate words l

by GuiA 13y ago

That article you posted is silly. Regarding the first paragraph: well of course these are going to be literally translated; why would you not translate words like "search engine" or "browser"? Do you want the French to use the actual words "search engine"? Regarding the second paragraph: actually, most of the words one would put in that category have translations: web (toile), driver (pilote). "wifi" makes sense as it is (as it was coined by an international alliance); "modem" still makes sense in French (modulateur-démodulateur). Regarding the last paragraph, again, most of these make sense. "Fonts" existed way before computers and thus have a valid French word; "download" was appropriately replaced by "télécharger", from "télé" (distance) and "charger" (load). Again, why would French people use the actual word "download"? The former allows one to guess its meaning even if they have no clue what the concept of downloading is. There are a couple silly things ("courriel" being one of the few valid complaints, and even then the same argument as for "télécharger" still holds), but overall it's really not crazy that a language would translate words so that they make more sense.

ars 13y ago
It's silly because the words are jargon, and are not supposed to used literally. They might have been coined from some original meaning, but they are just sounds now, and divorced from their origin. I suppose in france they also translate "main" and "void" in C programs?
- laumars 13y ago
  > It's silly because the words are jargon, and are not supposed to used literally. They might have been coined from some original meaning, but they are just sounds now, and divorced from their origin. "jargon" just means the words aren't easy for common folk to understand. So the logical conclusion would be that jargon should be translated. Personally I don't see why "search engine" or "browser" is any different to "fire engine" or "car". They're all just nouns (in fact "fire engine" even varies amongst English speakers as I believe Americans call it "fire truck"). > I suppose in france they also translate "main" and "void" in C programs? That's another language in itself; albeit a computer based one with English-language origins. You don't see people taking about int64 in common conversation any more than you see English people using French nouns to describe English objects.
  - ars 13y ago
    > "jargon" just means the words aren't easy for common folk to understand. So the logical conclusion would be that jargon should be translated. Jargon is a mental shorthand. Instead of explaining the concept you put it in a "box". Then your mind only has to remember the single concept instead of the whole set of sub-concepts that make up the word. Since a person has a limited number of things you can hold onto at once, by essentially "compressing" concepts you can increase the power of thought. So the logical conclusion is that jargon should not be translated. It should be left as is. A search engine is not an engine that searches. It's a single "thing".
    - GuiA 13y ago
      Except that it's easier to remember a concept if the name for it matches what it is. If I explain to my French grandpa what a search engine is, and tell him it's called a "moteur de recherche", it will all make sense and he will remember both the name and what it is. On the other hand, if I explain to him what a search engine is, and then tell him it's literally called a "search engine", that's just unnecessary confusion.
      - ars 13y ago
        I don't agree. Would you find it easier to remember "pasta" by thinking that it's a "salty mass of food"? Or is an automobile a "self propelled moving machine"? Are you going to start calling the Mississippi "big river"? Words have an origin in other languages, certainly. But it serves no purpose to translate that origin as is. Instead you accept the sound of the word and use it. And presumably hipster is "person who wears clothing low on the hips". Just because it's technology doesn't except it from the normal rules of words. All new words start from a meaning. But the meaning is interesting historically, it's not used for everyday speech. If you want to make the word French you don't translate it literally - it's not actually a motor. Call it a "research-majigy" or something like that.
        laumars 13y ago
        Some poor examples there: o 'Automobile' is already short for 'self propelled moving machine, o 'Mississippi' is a proper noun, o 'hipster' isn't even a proper word (why don't we all just start posting derogatory slang?) o and if you think of 'salty mass of food' when you eat pastas then you really are shopping in the wrong places / need to learn to cook better. o As for your dislike of the use of the term 'engine', it's meaning has evolved somewhat, but in software it's common to refer to a complicated core group of routines which powers the software / service as an 'engine'. eg 'game engine' in computer games.
- pessimizer 13y ago
  "Search engine" is not jargon. An English speaker from a century ago would understand what it meant - although they wouldn't know from what you were building the engine, or what it was meant to search. Search engine? http://www.etoday.ru/assets_c/2009/11/sobaka2-thumb-600x462-66874.jpg http://www.etoday.ru/assets_c/2009/11/sobaka2-thumb-600x462-...
- walshemj 13y ago
  Yep there is a civil service bureaucracy that comes up with new approved "french" words for example disque dur for a hard disk or DASD if your an IBM type. A few years ago I had the job of installing Wordstar 2000 for our bi/tri ligual typing pool and had to refer to a french technical dictionary a lot :-)
  - mitosis 13y ago
    News flash: different languages use different words!
    - walshemj 13y ago
      News flash languages are mutable and borrow words from other languages all the time - not even UKIP complain about french or german loan words e.g. Café schadenfreude and so on. It seem that only France seems to feel the need to have a bureaucracy to try (in a king canute like way) to hold back the tides.
      - mitosis 13y ago
        Only France, hm? Let me google that for you: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=language+academies&l=1 http://lmgtfy.com/?q=language+academies&l=1 Just because English borrows words more easily than most other languages ("We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary." -- James Nicoll) and has no central language regulating authority, doesn't mean all languages ought to work the same way. Complaining that the French say "disque dur" instead of "hard disk" is just silly, because "disque dur" means "hard disk" in French. It's a literal translation. There's no reason to use an English term when there's a perfectly good French one available! Why don't you use a German loanword and call it a Festplattenlaufwerk in English?
- kalleboo 13y ago
  > I suppose in france they also translate "main" and "void" in C programs? Visual Basic was translated (keywords and all) to many european languages. Excel formulas still have translations.

by GuiA 13y ago

ars 13y ago

It's silly because the words are jargon, and are not supposed to used literally. They might have been coined from some original meaning, but they are just sounds now, and divorced from their origin. I suppose in france they also translate "main" and "void" in C programs?

laumars 13y ago
> It's silly because the words are jargon, and are not supposed to used literally. They might have been coined from some original meaning, but they are just sounds now, and divorced from their origin. "jargon" just means the words aren't easy for common folk to understand. So the logical conclusion would be that jargon should be translated. Personally I don't see why "search engine" or "browser" is any different to "fire engine" or "car". They're all just nouns (in fact "fire engine" even varies amongst English speakers as I believe Americans call it "fire truck"). > I suppose in france they also translate "main" and "void" in C programs? That's another language in itself; albeit a computer based one with English-language origins. You don't see people taking about int64 in common conversation any more than you see English people using French nouns to describe English objects.
- ars 13y ago
  > "jargon" just means the words aren't easy for common folk to understand. So the logical conclusion would be that jargon should be translated. Jargon is a mental shorthand. Instead of explaining the concept you put it in a "box". Then your mind only has to remember the single concept instead of the whole set of sub-concepts that make up the word. Since a person has a limited number of things you can hold onto at once, by essentially "compressing" concepts you can increase the power of thought. So the logical conclusion is that jargon should not be translated. It should be left as is. A search engine is not an engine that searches. It's a single "thing".
  - GuiA 13y ago
    Except that it's easier to remember a concept if the name for it matches what it is. If I explain to my French grandpa what a search engine is, and tell him it's called a "moteur de recherche", it will all make sense and he will remember both the name and what it is. On the other hand, if I explain to him what a search engine is, and then tell him it's literally called a "search engine", that's just unnecessary confusion.
    - ars 13y ago
      I don't agree. Would you find it easier to remember "pasta" by thinking that it's a "salty mass of food"? Or is an automobile a "self propelled moving machine"? Are you going to start calling the Mississippi "big river"? Words have an origin in other languages, certainly. But it serves no purpose to translate that origin as is. Instead you accept the sound of the word and use it. And presumably hipster is "person who wears clothing low on the hips". Just because it's technology doesn't except it from the normal rules of words. All new words start from a meaning. But the meaning is interesting historically, it's not used for everyday speech. If you want to make the word French you don't translate it literally - it's not actually a motor. Call it a "research-majigy" or something like that.
      - laumars 13y ago
        Some poor examples there: o 'Automobile' is already short for 'self propelled moving machine, o 'Mississippi' is a proper noun, o 'hipster' isn't even a proper word (why don't we all just start posting derogatory slang?) o and if you think of 'salty mass of food' when you eat pastas then you really are shopping in the wrong places / need to learn to cook better. o As for your dislike of the use of the term 'engine', it's meaning has evolved somewhat, but in software it's common to refer to a complicated core group of routines which powers the software / service as an 'engine'. eg 'game engine' in computer games.
pessimizer 13y ago
"Search engine" is not jargon. An English speaker from a century ago would understand what it meant - although they wouldn't know from what you were building the engine, or what it was meant to search. Search engine? http://www.etoday.ru/assets_c/2009/11/sobaka2-thumb-600x462-66874.jpg http://www.etoday.ru/assets_c/2009/11/sobaka2-thumb-600x462-...
walshemj 13y ago
Yep there is a civil service bureaucracy that comes up with new approved "french" words for example disque dur for a hard disk or DASD if your an IBM type. A few years ago I had the job of installing Wordstar 2000 for our bi/tri ligual typing pool and had to refer to a french technical dictionary a lot :-)
- mitosis 13y ago
  News flash: different languages use different words!
  - walshemj 13y ago
    News flash languages are mutable and borrow words from other languages all the time - not even UKIP complain about french or german loan words e.g. Café schadenfreude and so on. It seem that only France seems to feel the need to have a bureaucracy to try (in a king canute like way) to hold back the tides.
    - mitosis 13y ago
      Only France, hm? Let me google that for you: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=language+academies&l=1 http://lmgtfy.com/?q=language+academies&l=1 Just because English borrows words more easily than most other languages ("We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary." -- James Nicoll) and has no central language regulating authority, doesn't mean all languages ought to work the same way. Complaining that the French say "disque dur" instead of "hard disk" is just silly, because "disque dur" means "hard disk" in French. It's a literal translation. There's no reason to use an English term when there's a perfectly good French one available! Why don't you use a German loanword and call it a Festplattenlaufwerk in English?
kalleboo 13y ago
> I suppose in france they also translate "main" and "void" in C programs? Visual Basic was translated (keywords and all) to many european languages. Excel formulas still have translations.