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OP is talking about going to the moon, you are bringing the topic back to retail, which is ok but a bit cold-showerish. I think on HN we could and should go fu

by gbog 13y ago

OP is talking about going to the moon, you are bringing the topic back to retail, which is ok but a bit cold-showerish. I think on HN we could and should go further in the "no-limit" thoughts, even if as a simple exercise. For example, I always wondered why would Google need to make money. In some weird views, we could think the maybe it already have enough money to be self-sustainable, in financial orbit. Maybe they could put all the money they have in some low risk investment and use the annuity to paid engineers and researchers. They sure could cut a lot of expenses on PR and office prettifying. Then a Google that was not required to make money anymore would really become something. It could provide every human with free internet without relying on forced data mining. It could pay researcher to produce open whitepapers on topics of their own interests. This would working be a little bit like Universities in the middle-age or renaissance: having some funds, hosting interesting people, being a center for innovation, etc. I do not think this is pure utopy, or to say it otherwise: only a massive ship like Google could carry such an utopian experiment.

jgreen10 13y ago
Google failed to make a big dent in cloud computing, e-reading, instant streaming, product search, on-line payments, and many other areas where they had huge ambitions, but it was Amazon that drove the market. Amazon even owns 10% of the tablet market, more than Samsung and Google combined. Google has become obsessed with turning itself into a social network, just when social networking reached its peak. Even Jeff Bezos' attempts at getting to the moon have so far been a lot more serious than that of Larry Page... If anything will get us to the moon it's not piles of cash, it's a solid business strategy. I certainly hope Google will find one for glass, their self-driving cars, and other cool hardware projects, but a quick look around all the car manufacturers suggests that Google may once again miss the boat.
- ericd 13y ago
  >I certainly hope Google will find one for glass, their self-driving cars, and other cool hardware projects, but a quick look around all the car manufacturers suggests that Google may once again miss the boat. The car manufacturers are working on self-driving only on highways, which is nothing compared to general self-driving. I don't know for certain, but I think it's fairly safe to say that the car companies don't have the CS muscle to do proper general self driving.
- gbog 13y ago
  When I said the moon I just meant some far fetching projects, not just sending tourists to the moon. However I agree that the Google plus social turn is kind of frivolous and heavy handed, at the same time. I was hoping in the beginning that it was a clever strategy to force open Facebook, but it seems to be not the case after all.
dredmorbius 13y ago
OP is talking about going to the moon, you are bringing the topic back to retail, which is ok but a bit cold-showerish. Ask any broad who's been around the block a few times about guys selling her the moon and the stars. Pan Am was selling tickets to the moon in the 1960s. Didn't work out so great when they failed at retail and went bankrupt. http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/06/ticket-to-space/ http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/06/ticket-to-space/ http://articles.latimes.com/1991-01-09/news/mn-7223_1_fuel-costs http://articles.latimes.com/1991-01-09/news/mn-7223_1_fuel-c... Truth is: Google's an advertising company, and its biggest market is intentional users -- mostly search-driven, who are looking for something, often to buy and use its services. Piss them off, freak them out, annoy them, or cut to the chase and offer the end-result directly and you've short-circuited their entire business model. Same as Microsoft was terrified of either free operating systems (Linux) or applications which could run (on any OS) over a browser. And then they got blindsided by mobile. Sucks to be Microsoft today. Could well be Google in a few years. I always wondered why would Google need to make money. Um. That's kind of how this iteration of the majical economy game works. Businesses are scored on their ability to earn more in revenues than they spend on expenses. No business can keep operating indefinitely without profits, though some giants have functioned for years with losses (between running down cash, working through or selling off assets, and taking on debt). Maybe they could put all the money they have in some low risk investment That "low risk investment* is ultimately the rest of the economy (hint: US T Bills are supported by economic activity elsewhere for real gains). Which would mean that Google was losing ground relative to same. Unless Google were able to, say, come up with a perpetual / unlimited energy supply or something like it, they'll need money. Or they manage to utterly change the rules of how the economy works, in ways which would make Marx proud. I do not think this is pure utopy Stop thinking. It is.
- gbog 13y ago
  Ok but life is not all about business and money. Some or many inventors did their exploring tasks because it was a passion of theirs. Some people are driven by pride or even sexual desires. Some of the greatest achievements of humans have been made in the name of God, or for a women, or just because it has to be done. Google founders should not really need more money than what they already have, and therefore could have another set out goals in life than making more money...
hrktb 13y ago
I think what Amazon is doing is more ambitious and far reaching that everything else Google does. Even now choosing amoung an astronomical amount of goods in an app and have them delivered reliably in days->dozen of hours[->hours->minutes in the future ?] is near the sci-fi realm, is more desirable than self-driving cars, and has more impact on everyday life than any computing product (bar 3D printing). Even on digital goods Amazon dos better than Google's content shops, with the exception of apps. Retail as a concept feels boring, but what Amazon does has real practical effects on everyday life, and they are pushing the boundaries further and further where no company cared to go until now. Thinking that on top of all of this their business model is actually sane, I'd root for Amazon any day (except for how they treat warehouse employees, but that would be another topic) PS: An anecdote: after an heavy earthquake, when everyone is busy hording food and water supply from brick and mortar chains, amazon was still delivering anything including emergency goods anywhere accessible at day+1 delivery. It was mind blowing.
- devinj 13y ago
  I don't actually think that's more significant than self-driving cars -- getting things faster is one thing, changing the way we travel is another. Imagine a world where nobody dies in traffic accidents anymore? No drunk driving nonsense, etc. -- that's a far different and better world than one where the only new thing is "hey hey I can use my phone to get stuff in ten minutes".
  - hrktb 13y ago
    > Imagine a world where nobody dies in traffic accidents anymore? > "hey hey I can use my phone to get stuff in ten minutes". If I get the replacement parts for my vacuum cleaner for tomorrow, I won't get in a car or any transportation mechanism to get it to some store. As a side effect, your traffic accident number is down (less individual people driving) and the system efficiency is also up (efficient vehicles moving the goods).[] What amazon does goes toward the goal you state. It does it in a small way, but it's here today, you can use it now, and it should continue doing it better and better everyday. Google's self driving car might reach your goal to some point in some distant future. If infrastructure gets a lot better. And legislation problem get solve. And Google is still around by then. Is it so much better ? [] BTW, You'll still have drunk people, but this problem might as well be solved by other means than self-driving cars.

by gbog 13y ago

jgreen10 13y ago

Google failed to make a big dent in cloud computing, e-reading, instant streaming, product search, on-line payments, and many other areas where they had huge ambitions, but it was Amazon that drove the market. Amazon even owns 10% of the tablet market, more than Samsung and Google combined. Google has become obsessed with turning itself into a social network, just when social networking reached its peak. Even Jeff Bezos' attempts at getting to the moon have so far been a lot more serious than that of Larry Page... If anything will get us to the moon it's not piles of cash, it's a solid business strategy. I certainly hope Google will find one for glass, their self-driving cars, and other cool hardware projects, but a quick look around all the car manufacturers suggests that Google may once again miss the boat.

ericd 13y ago
>I certainly hope Google will find one for glass, their self-driving cars, and other cool hardware projects, but a quick look around all the car manufacturers suggests that Google may once again miss the boat. The car manufacturers are working on self-driving only on highways, which is nothing compared to general self-driving. I don't know for certain, but I think it's fairly safe to say that the car companies don't have the CS muscle to do proper general self driving.
gbog 13y ago
When I said the moon I just meant some far fetching projects, not just sending tourists to the moon. However I agree that the Google plus social turn is kind of frivolous and heavy handed, at the same time. I was hoping in the beginning that it was a clever strategy to force open Facebook, but it seems to be not the case after all.

dredmorbius 13y ago

OP is talking about going to the moon, you are bringing the topic back to retail, which is ok but a bit cold-showerish. Ask any broad who's been around the block a few times about guys selling her the moon and the stars. Pan Am was selling tickets to the moon in the 1960s. Didn't work out so great when they failed at retail and went bankrupt. http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/06/ticket-to-space/ http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/06/ticket-to-space/ http://articles.latimes.com/1991-01-09/news/mn-7223_1_fuel-costs http://articles.latimes.com/1991-01-09/news/mn-7223_1_fuel-c... Truth is: Google's an advertising company, and its biggest market is intentional users -- mostly search-driven, who are looking for something, often to buy and use its services. Piss them off, freak them out, annoy them, or cut to the chase and offer the end-result directly and you've short-circuited their entire business model. Same as Microsoft was terrified of either free operating systems (Linux) or applications which could run (on any OS) over a browser. And then they got blindsided by mobile. Sucks to be Microsoft today. Could well be Google in a few years. I always wondered why would Google need to make money. Um. That's kind of how this iteration of the majical economy game works. Businesses are scored on their ability to earn more in revenues than they spend on expenses. No business can keep operating indefinitely without profits, though some giants have functioned for years with losses (between running down cash, working through or selling off assets, and taking on debt). Maybe they could put all the money they have in some low risk investment That "low risk investment* is ultimately the rest of the economy (hint: US T Bills are supported by economic activity elsewhere for real gains). Which would mean that Google was losing ground relative to same. Unless Google were able to, say, come up with a perpetual / unlimited energy supply or something like it, they'll need money. Or they manage to utterly change the rules of how the economy works, in ways which would make Marx proud. I do not think this is pure utopy Stop thinking. It is.

gbog 13y ago
Ok but life is not all about business and money. Some or many inventors did their exploring tasks because it was a passion of theirs. Some people are driven by pride or even sexual desires. Some of the greatest achievements of humans have been made in the name of God, or for a women, or just because it has to be done. Google founders should not really need more money than what they already have, and therefore could have another set out goals in life than making more money...

hrktb 13y ago

I think what Amazon is doing is more ambitious and far reaching that everything else Google does. Even now choosing amoung an astronomical amount of goods in an app and have them delivered reliably in days->dozen of hours[->hours->minutes in the future ?] is near the sci-fi realm, is more desirable than self-driving cars, and has more impact on everyday life than any computing product (bar 3D printing). Even on digital goods Amazon dos better than Google's content shops, with the exception of apps. Retail as a concept feels boring, but what Amazon does has real practical effects on everyday life, and they are pushing the boundaries further and further where no company cared to go until now. Thinking that on top of all of this their business model is actually sane, I'd root for Amazon any day (except for how they treat warehouse employees, but that would be another topic) PS: An anecdote: after an heavy earthquake, when everyone is busy hording food and water supply from brick and mortar chains, amazon was still delivering anything including emergency goods anywhere accessible at day+1 delivery. It was mind blowing.

devinj 13y ago
I don't actually think that's more significant than self-driving cars -- getting things faster is one thing, changing the way we travel is another. Imagine a world where nobody dies in traffic accidents anymore? No drunk driving nonsense, etc. -- that's a far different and better world than one where the only new thing is "hey hey I can use my phone to get stuff in ten minutes".
- hrktb 13y ago
  > Imagine a world where nobody dies in traffic accidents anymore? > "hey hey I can use my phone to get stuff in ten minutes". If I get the replacement parts for my vacuum cleaner for tomorrow, I won't get in a car or any transportation mechanism to get it to some store. As a side effect, your traffic accident number is down (less individual people driving) and the system efficiency is also up (efficient vehicles moving the goods).[] What amazon does goes toward the goal you state. It does it in a small way, but it's here today, you can use it now, and it should continue doing it better and better everyday. Google's self driving car might reach your goal to some point in some distant future. If infrastructure gets a lot better. And legislation problem get solve. And Google is still around by then. Is it so much better ? [] BTW, You'll still have drunk people, but this problem might as well be solved by other means than self-driving cars.