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You don't. It's Java. It's like a kid asking you to build a car engine from scratch day one. We kindly point them to our Scratch class as a way to learn how to

You don't. It's Java. It's like a kid asking you to build a car engine from scratch day one. We kindly point them to our Scratch class as a way to learn how to program.

gruseom 13y ago
Well, I'm glad I didn't come to the wrong conclusion. It's too bad, though, because Minecraft modding got this kid really excited, and there are many (maybe millions) like him. It seems like it could be a really fruitful area for work. Actually, when I was looking through stuff for him, I found a project that implemented Minecraft bindings for JavaScript with the aim of creating a friendly environment for kids. The author was an HNer and had posted it here a year or two ago. But the project had languished since then, and it struck me (perhaps unfairly) that it probably wouldn't work out of the box in all configurations. The last thing one should put in front of a kid is something that immediately frustrates them by failing in strange ways. Tools like that need to be really, really well-hammered. Which is one of the advantages of Scratch.
- DanBC 13y ago
  It is a shame that Minecraft modding is so horrific because, as you say, it would be a very powerful motivator to get young people involved in programming. Even the RPi Minecraft appears to lack information about modding: http://pi.minecraft.net/ http://pi.minecraft.net/
  - VonGuard 13y ago
    If someone wants to teach it for free, they can offer a class in this at the MADE. I have yet to find someone who can teach it, though.
supersystem 13y ago
One option would be to modify a Minecraft clone e.g. https://github.com/fogleman/Minecraft https://github.com/fogleman/Minecraft
tptacek 13y ago
So what? My kid went to summer camp for Java graphics/game programming; he had a middle school semester of Python before that and nothing else. He wasn't the youngest in the course, either. Java is not that hard. In fact, because it's so explicit (and wordy and boilerplatey), it might even be easier than some of the alternatives.
- VonGuard 13y ago
  You're right, Java is not hard. But I'd wager you paid for that summer camp. We teach a free class to random kids every week. Because it's free, random kids with NO PRIOR COMPUTER KNOWLEDGE show up. This is quite different from a kid who grew up in a house with a computer, an iPad, and a dad who's a programmer. We deal with kids who've never touched a computer before, and only understand phones. When those kinds of kids want to make Minecraft mods, we start them at the beginning, with Scratch.
  - tptacek 13y ago
    I'm sorry if I came off as saying Scratch was a bad idea. My kids got started, when they were much younger, on Scratch. A good place I think to go here would be a CraftBukkit "framework", something that would make a series of simple plugins easier to write for people with minimal programming ability. That's how the Java camp was taught: with a game framework that required a few specific pieces of programming to fill in some blanks to make a predetermined game (a brick-breaker, IIRC) work.
    - VonGuard 13y ago
      Wanna come teach said class? We always need new teachers and volunteers. Your son could TA.

You don't. It's Java. It's like a kid asking you to build a car engine from scratch day one. We kindly point them to our Scratch class as a way to learn how to program.

gruseom 13y ago

Well, I'm glad I didn't come to the wrong conclusion. It's too bad, though, because Minecraft modding got this kid really excited, and there are many (maybe millions) like him. It seems like it could be a really fruitful area for work. Actually, when I was looking through stuff for him, I found a project that implemented Minecraft bindings for JavaScript with the aim of creating a friendly environment for kids. The author was an HNer and had posted it here a year or two ago. But the project had languished since then, and it struck me (perhaps unfairly) that it probably wouldn't work out of the box in all configurations. The last thing one should put in front of a kid is something that immediately frustrates them by failing in strange ways. Tools like that need to be really, really well-hammered. Which is one of the advantages of Scratch.

DanBC 13y ago
It is a shame that Minecraft modding is so horrific because, as you say, it would be a very powerful motivator to get young people involved in programming. Even the RPi Minecraft appears to lack information about modding: http://pi.minecraft.net/ http://pi.minecraft.net/
- VonGuard 13y ago
  If someone wants to teach it for free, they can offer a class in this at the MADE. I have yet to find someone who can teach it, though.

supersystem 13y ago

One option would be to modify a Minecraft clone e.g. https://github.com/fogleman/Minecraft https://github.com/fogleman/Minecraft

tptacek 13y ago

So what? My kid went to summer camp for Java graphics/game programming; he had a middle school semester of Python before that and nothing else. He wasn't the youngest in the course, either. Java is not that hard. In fact, because it's so explicit (and wordy and boilerplatey), it might even be easier than some of the alternatives.

VonGuard 13y ago
You're right, Java is not hard. But I'd wager you paid for that summer camp. We teach a free class to random kids every week. Because it's free, random kids with NO PRIOR COMPUTER KNOWLEDGE show up. This is quite different from a kid who grew up in a house with a computer, an iPad, and a dad who's a programmer. We deal with kids who've never touched a computer before, and only understand phones. When those kinds of kids want to make Minecraft mods, we start them at the beginning, with Scratch.
- tptacek 13y ago
  I'm sorry if I came off as saying Scratch was a bad idea. My kids got started, when they were much younger, on Scratch. A good place I think to go here would be a CraftBukkit "framework", something that would make a series of simple plugins easier to write for people with minimal programming ability. That's how the Java camp was taught: with a game framework that required a few specific pieces of programming to fill in some blanks to make a predetermined game (a brick-breaker, IIRC) work.
  - VonGuard 13y ago
    Wanna come teach said class? We always need new teachers and volunteers. Your son could TA.