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"How come UK wants to stop paying immigrants from poor countries unemployement benefits?" EU migrants entering the UK cannot claim unemployment benefit for the

"How come UK wants to stop paying immigrants from poor countries unemployement benefits?" EU migrants entering the UK cannot claim unemployment benefit for the first three months of their stay (but they can after that time). The debate is around "benefit tourism" - people travelling to other countries to claim welfare benefits. Whether this is an actual problem or something whipped up by our toxic British press is hard to say (facts rarely come into the discussion as far as the press are concerned). The debate about "benefit tourism" isn't unique to Britain (perhaps the hysterical tone is though). It's a political issue in other European countries too.

waps 13y ago
> The debate is around "benefit tourism" - people travelling to other countries to claim welfare benefits. No it's not. It's about North African immigrants creating completely exclusive communities using violence. Or at least, it is in Brussels. It is about the creation of oppressive communities fraught with crime, sexual inequality, enormous hatred of anyone not entirely like them in the middle of nearly all European countries. Visit Brussels. Make sure to arrive through the "gare du nord", and walk around the building (warning: quite a walk, don't take too much money with you). You will understand in 30 minutes what's going on.
- guard-of-terra 13y ago
  As someone from Russia who is recently very interesting in the whole immigration debate, I would say that very conflicting news come from EU. Some sources, like you, claim insane crime in immigrant ghettoes, when other sources act like there is no problem. If immigrants have high crime rate and they make a sizable portion of citizens, how come it doesn't reflect in crime statistics? Because those are still low for the EU as far as I know. What's the mechanics behind all that, in short?
  - waps 13y ago
    I'd say : follow the money. Without immigrants, the population of the EU would be dropping, and quite quickly. That would destroy Europe, affecting a hell of a lot of politics. None of the people who think like this live in the cities. Well either they live in the very expensive neighbourhoods, the "reserved" neighbourhoods (e.g. the EU commission "reserves" certain houses/apartments only for it's employees), or the countryside (which is more like suburbs than like countryside). On the other hand, there are also people who actually live there. They wouldn't mind the population dropping and the violence, exclusion and crime matters a whole lot more if you can't escape it. Walking around the north station in Brussels with an iPad, for example, is impossible. Walking around alone if you're female, just don't risk it. And of course, the racism charge is used against anyone who isn't happy. Note that racism, by itself, is a crime in Western Europe (this started out as a law against holocaust denial and now includes a hell of a lot more[1]). It's considered part of criminal law, which means that if you're suspected of racism you can be charged without any damages. This tends to happen to people who get in the way of the status-quo politics. In reality 35-45% of the population is extremely against immigration (including nearly all non-recent immigrants), but they're kept out of the political process through charges of racism or accusations of being nazis. [1] Except of course, where convenient. Denying the Armenian genocide is sort-of OK by the socialist parties in Europe, because they want their power over Turkey too.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
- _delirium 13y ago
  This vote was only about restricting immigration from the EU, though, not immigration from outside the EU. The two biggest immigrant groups in Switzerland that will be hit by this measure are Italian nationals, and German nationals (the two biggest sources of Swiss immigrants). There is apparently some tension between Italian-speaking Swiss and Italian immigrants; and between German-speaking Swiss and German immigrants, despite those groups not being from wildly different ethnic or cultural backgrounds. It's not like there is some Italian ghetto inside Italian-speaking Switzerland that is failing to integrate into the majority culture...

waps 13y ago

> The debate is around "benefit tourism" - people travelling to other countries to claim welfare benefits. No it's not. It's about North African immigrants creating completely exclusive communities using violence. Or at least, it is in Brussels. It is about the creation of oppressive communities fraught with crime, sexual inequality, enormous hatred of anyone not entirely like them in the middle of nearly all European countries. Visit Brussels. Make sure to arrive through the "gare du nord", and walk around the building (warning: quite a walk, don't take too much money with you). You will understand in 30 minutes what's going on.

guard-of-terra 13y ago
As someone from Russia who is recently very interesting in the whole immigration debate, I would say that very conflicting news come from EU. Some sources, like you, claim insane crime in immigrant ghettoes, when other sources act like there is no problem. If immigrants have high crime rate and they make a sizable portion of citizens, how come it doesn't reflect in crime statistics? Because those are still low for the EU as far as I know. What's the mechanics behind all that, in short?
- waps 13y ago
  I'd say : follow the money. Without immigrants, the population of the EU would be dropping, and quite quickly. That would destroy Europe, affecting a hell of a lot of politics. None of the people who think like this live in the cities. Well either they live in the very expensive neighbourhoods, the "reserved" neighbourhoods (e.g. the EU commission "reserves" certain houses/apartments only for it's employees), or the countryside (which is more like suburbs than like countryside). On the other hand, there are also people who actually live there. They wouldn't mind the population dropping and the violence, exclusion and crime matters a whole lot more if you can't escape it. Walking around the north station in Brussels with an iPad, for example, is impossible. Walking around alone if you're female, just don't risk it. And of course, the racism charge is used against anyone who isn't happy. Note that racism, by itself, is a crime in Western Europe (this started out as a law against holocaust denial and now includes a hell of a lot more[1]). It's considered part of criminal law, which means that if you're suspected of racism you can be charged without any damages. This tends to happen to people who get in the way of the status-quo politics. In reality 35-45% of the population is extremely against immigration (including nearly all non-recent immigrants), but they're kept out of the political process through charges of racism or accusations of being nazis. [1] Except of course, where convenient. Denying the Armenian genocide is sort-of OK by the socialist parties in Europe, because they want their power over Turkey too.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
_delirium 13y ago
This vote was only about restricting immigration from the EU, though, not immigration from outside the EU. The two biggest immigrant groups in Switzerland that will be hit by this measure are Italian nationals, and German nationals (the two biggest sources of Swiss immigrants). There is apparently some tension between Italian-speaking Swiss and Italian immigrants; and between German-speaking Swiss and German immigrants, despite those groups not being from wildly different ethnic or cultural backgrounds. It's not like there is some Italian ghetto inside Italian-speaking Switzerland that is failing to integrate into the majority culture...