5 ms·

Just curious, do you have kids? I might have agreed with you before I held my preemie (only 5 weeks, nothing like the baby we are talking about) in my hand: h

Just curious, do you have kids? I might have agreed with you before I held my preemie (only 5 weeks, nothing like the baby we are talking about) in my hand: http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/photos/1999/04/16.html http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/photos/1999/04/16.html It's easier to make the calls before you have a kid, they are calls in theory. After you have a kid you are changed, what was an obvious call becomes much much more complex. If you can make that call after holding your own kid, wow.

thaumasiotes 13y ago
For your reference: I don't have children of my own. When I was 16, my mother gave birth to twins, so I have more parenting experience than the typical childless American, including that of holding closely-related infants. > It's easier to make the calls before you have a kid, they are calls in theory. After you have a kid you are changed Very true, but I don't see myself reversing on this.
- luckydude 13y ago
  Not sure if this helps or not but before we had our first my wife and I sounded a little like we were on the same page as you, more black and white. For example, we were mid 30's when "we" got pregnant so there were concerns about Downs and other stuff that happens when the eggs are older. We were pretty darn sure that if there were any "major" problems such as Downs, we would abort. It seemed pretty obvious what the right call was. After having the first one? Things changed. Downs really didn't seem that bad compared to a life. I'm still pro choice and I don't think you could pay me enough to judge someone else's decision, that's their choice and it's hard enough without my irrelevant opinion in the mix. But for me personally? The bar on where I would go with an abortion went WAY up after having a kid. Way up. Just trying to say having a kid really changed my thinking and I suspect I'm not that unusual in that respect.
- paul 13y ago
  There's no comparison. I don't think it's possible to understand parenting without actually being a parent. I certainly wasn't able to understand it before, and I thought more as you do now.
- yscale 13y ago
  You are an ignorant, arrogant idiot, and a callous asshole. BTW, we already knew you didn't have kids. We knew that both from your beliefs, and moreso from the the hurtful language you chose to use. We all already knew you were childless. And single. And white. And male. And a programmer. And an asshole. Now do the world a favor, and shut up. Forever.
  - luckydude 13y ago
    I was once a childless single white male programmer. Oh, and an asshole. Didn't realize it at the time but I wised up. Give him time and cut him a little slack, he's entitled to his opinion.
    - yscale 13y ago
      He's entitled to his (ignorant) opinions, but he's not entitled to be so pointlessly rude and cruel with his method of expressing it. If this was a dinner party, I'd quietly ask him to excuse himself, and he'd never be invited again. His choice of language was pointlessly cruel and outrageous.
      - luckydude 13y ago
        I suspect he didn't view it as being rude, he viewed it as doing the right thing. He probably truly believes what he is saying, I used to think stuff sort of like that. My guess is he is somewhere between 23-32 years old, that was my stupid range :) I guess the point is don't assume he's being an asshole, a real asshole would troll harder. I think he believes what he is saying. Yeah, it's rude but I'm not sure I'd be willing to write the guy off.
        yscale 13y ago
        He wrote the following to a father: "the cost of replacing the thing is much, much lower." That's rude. A lot of his other beliefs (such as his belief that being a brother is just like being a dad) just show ignorance and naivte, but "replacing the thing" is a cruel, inhuman, and astonishingly horrible way to express an already thoughtless opinion. I've met a lot of assholes, but I've never, in my entire life, met somebody who would think that's a fine thing to say. Fuck him.

thaumasiotes 13y ago

For your reference: I don't have children of my own. When I was 16, my mother gave birth to twins, so I have more parenting experience than the typical childless American, including that of holding closely-related infants. > It's easier to make the calls before you have a kid, they are calls in theory. After you have a kid you are changed Very true, but I don't see myself reversing on this.

luckydude 13y ago
Not sure if this helps or not but before we had our first my wife and I sounded a little like we were on the same page as you, more black and white. For example, we were mid 30's when "we" got pregnant so there were concerns about Downs and other stuff that happens when the eggs are older. We were pretty darn sure that if there were any "major" problems such as Downs, we would abort. It seemed pretty obvious what the right call was. After having the first one? Things changed. Downs really didn't seem that bad compared to a life. I'm still pro choice and I don't think you could pay me enough to judge someone else's decision, that's their choice and it's hard enough without my irrelevant opinion in the mix. But for me personally? The bar on where I would go with an abortion went WAY up after having a kid. Way up. Just trying to say having a kid really changed my thinking and I suspect I'm not that unusual in that respect.
paul 13y ago
There's no comparison. I don't think it's possible to understand parenting without actually being a parent. I certainly wasn't able to understand it before, and I thought more as you do now.
yscale 13y ago
You are an ignorant, arrogant idiot, and a callous asshole. BTW, we already knew you didn't have kids. We knew that both from your beliefs, and moreso from the the hurtful language you chose to use. We all already knew you were childless. And single. And white. And male. And a programmer. And an asshole. Now do the world a favor, and shut up. Forever.
- luckydude 13y ago
  I was once a childless single white male programmer. Oh, and an asshole. Didn't realize it at the time but I wised up. Give him time and cut him a little slack, he's entitled to his opinion.
  - yscale 13y ago
    He's entitled to his (ignorant) opinions, but he's not entitled to be so pointlessly rude and cruel with his method of expressing it. If this was a dinner party, I'd quietly ask him to excuse himself, and he'd never be invited again. His choice of language was pointlessly cruel and outrageous.
    - luckydude 13y ago
      I suspect he didn't view it as being rude, he viewed it as doing the right thing. He probably truly believes what he is saying, I used to think stuff sort of like that. My guess is he is somewhere between 23-32 years old, that was my stupid range :) I guess the point is don't assume he's being an asshole, a real asshole would troll harder. I think he believes what he is saying. Yeah, it's rude but I'm not sure I'd be willing to write the guy off.
      - yscale 13y ago
        He wrote the following to a father: "the cost of replacing the thing is much, much lower." That's rude. A lot of his other beliefs (such as his belief that being a brother is just like being a dad) just show ignorance and naivte, but "replacing the thing" is a cruel, inhuman, and astonishingly horrible way to express an already thoughtless opinion. I've met a lot of assholes, but I've never, in my entire life, met somebody who would think that's a fine thing to say. Fuck him.