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There isn't a name for the political system we find ourselves in at the moment. It works like this: you free to act as you wish as long as you respect a series

There isn't a name for the political system we find ourselves in at the moment. It works like this: you free to act as you wish as long as you respect a series of red lines that are never clearly formulated. All these red lines pertain to making changes of substance in the dominant political and economic system. If you do cross over them, then you find yourself inside the prison system, in a psychiatric ward, or simply disappeared altogether. If large numbers of people cross these lines at once, I suspect we will find ourselves overnight in a totalitarian system, since all the tools for mass control of the population are already in place.

Zigurd 13y ago
Actually, there is a name: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism Also called "managed democracy."
- philovivero 13y ago
  This is simply brilliant. I always call the United States a fascist dictatatorship, but it leaves a bitter taste, since I know that's not entirely true. There are subtle elements I'm not accounting for. A "Managed Democracy" is perfect. It accounts for that the corporations took over the government instead of the other way around. It accounts for that protests and free speech are "allowed." It accounts for why people are at the same time militantly patriotic but apathetic at the polls. It accounts for propaganda being distributed rather than centralised. This guy Wolin has put a lot of thought into this.
zxcdw 13y ago
The worst part, I believe, is that these systems which are set in place are placed there in good faith of someone. I don't think that there's some huge government official conspiracy spanning thousands of people orchestrating this to control the "sheeple". It's just that to understand implications of privacy violations and mass surveillance is quite complex topic and definitely something you can't explain to a layman in a few minutes and expect them to understand the importance. If the result is not immediately obvious with concrete examples, "nobody" will give a damn. Those same "nobodies" act in good faith to increase surveillance to fight crime or terrorism. Then of course there are people who don't believe surveillance is effective against terrorism(as some of the leaks indicate) but have ulterior motives to support it, whatever they may be.
- abrichr 13y ago
  I don't think that there's some huge government official conspiracy spanning thousands of people orchestrating this to control the "sheeple". Have you ever heard of Edward Bernays? It's not a conspiracy; it's in the public domain. If you want to find out more, The Century of the Self [1,2] is a very accessible introduction. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Century_of_the_Self http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Century_of_the_Self [2] http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-century-of-the-self/ http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-century-of-the-self/
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
tbastos 13y ago
I propose we call it a Techno-Militarized Surveillance-and-Incarceration Pseudo-Democratic State. Here are the basics on how to create one: 1) Education: provide a relatively weak public education system that teaches patriotism and not a lot about the rest of the world, so the masses are easier to fool. At the same time, have the best graduate schools in the world so you can have the best scientists and engineers (and technology). 2) Media: have a few corporations control 90% of your media. Make them work for you by providing news and shows that distract the masses from political topics, and at the same time instil fear in their hearts. Fear is very important for mass control. If possible, promote capitalist ideals such as meritocracy, free market, working hard, consumption, etc. through your media and school system. 3) Industries: your most important industries are armaments and defence technology, though your prison industry also plays a strategic role. Focus on having a steady flow of wars, preferably in unfamiliar faraway countries. But throw in a few domestic wars too, especially on "drugs"---to promote fear, help you with your prison industry and keep the masses away from the dangerous "psychedelics" that could make people question things. Use fear to gain power and reduce civil rights, then use your more rigorous laws and militarized police to keep the people in line and the prisons full. 4) Intelligence: your intelligence agencies work behind curtains to keep the system working in harmony and further the "national interests", using surveillance and their access to power---and the tools of fear, ignorance and propaganda---to make the masses work for the system while believing they are free and living in a true democracy. Beautiful. Of course, these are not an US exclusive, many other countries are trying the same tricks, but it seems the US is far in the lead...
- joehillen 13y ago
  Don't forget Imprisonment. There are more people in prison in the US than anywhere else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_St...
- fennecfoxen 13y ago
  The US public education system really isn't doing a grand job teaching "patriotism" per se. Public school teachers, taken as a group nationwide, are notorious for being left-wing (and pro-union, and such.) The left wing has kind of been been down on Patriotism since around Vietnam or so, with only a brief interlude around Sep. 2001 through 2003 or so. Oh, sure, there are regional variations and exceptions, but Texas is probably the only one with a population behind it worth counting.
einhverfr 13y ago
> There isn't a name for the political system we find ourselves in at the moment. It works like this: you free to act as you wish as long as you respect a series of red lines that are never clearly formulated. All these red lines pertain to making changes of substance in the dominant political and economic system. I may seem fairly jaded in saying this but you have described, quite literally, every society in the world, and every society in history. Of course, in the West we like to pretend we have broken this pattern but we never did.
jobu 13y ago
How is what we have today so different from McCarthyism of the 1950's?
- stefantalpalaru 13y ago
  McCarthyism didn't completely vanish after the 1950s. Affiliation with communist organizations is still incompatible with naturalization: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideological_restrictions_on_naturalization_in_U.S._law#Current_ideological_restrictions_on_naturalization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideological_restrictions_on_na...
specialist 13y ago
The way I heard it: Ambiguous rules, ruthlessly enforced.

Zigurd 13y ago

Actually, there is a name: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism Also called "managed democracy."

philovivero 13y ago
This is simply brilliant. I always call the United States a fascist dictatatorship, but it leaves a bitter taste, since I know that's not entirely true. There are subtle elements I'm not accounting for. A "Managed Democracy" is perfect. It accounts for that the corporations took over the government instead of the other way around. It accounts for that protests and free speech are "allowed." It accounts for why people are at the same time militantly patriotic but apathetic at the polls. It accounts for propaganda being distributed rather than centralised. This guy Wolin has put a lot of thought into this.

zxcdw 13y ago

The worst part, I believe, is that these systems which are set in place are placed there in good faith of someone. I don't think that there's some huge government official conspiracy spanning thousands of people orchestrating this to control the "sheeple". It's just that to understand implications of privacy violations and mass surveillance is quite complex topic and definitely something you can't explain to a layman in a few minutes and expect them to understand the importance. If the result is not immediately obvious with concrete examples, "nobody" will give a damn. Those same "nobodies" act in good faith to increase surveillance to fight crime or terrorism. Then of course there are people who don't believe surveillance is effective against terrorism(as some of the leaks indicate) but have ulterior motives to support it, whatever they may be.

abrichr 13y ago
I don't think that there's some huge government official conspiracy spanning thousands of people orchestrating this to control the "sheeple". Have you ever heard of Edward Bernays? It's not a conspiracy; it's in the public domain. If you want to find out more, The Century of the Self [1,2] is a very accessible introduction. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Century_of_the_Self http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Century_of_the_Self [2] http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-century-of-the-self/ http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-century-of-the-self/
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]

tbastos 13y ago

I propose we call it a Techno-Militarized Surveillance-and-Incarceration Pseudo-Democratic State. Here are the basics on how to create one: 1) Education: provide a relatively weak public education system that teaches patriotism and not a lot about the rest of the world, so the masses are easier to fool. At the same time, have the best graduate schools in the world so you can have the best scientists and engineers (and technology). 2) Media: have a few corporations control 90% of your media. Make them work for you by providing news and shows that distract the masses from political topics, and at the same time instil fear in their hearts. Fear is very important for mass control. If possible, promote capitalist ideals such as meritocracy, free market, working hard, consumption, etc. through your media and school system. 3) Industries: your most important industries are armaments and defence technology, though your prison industry also plays a strategic role. Focus on having a steady flow of wars, preferably in unfamiliar faraway countries. But throw in a few domestic wars too, especially on "drugs"---to promote fear, help you with your prison industry and keep the masses away from the dangerous "psychedelics" that could make people question things. Use fear to gain power and reduce civil rights, then use your more rigorous laws and militarized police to keep the people in line and the prisons full. 4) Intelligence: your intelligence agencies work behind curtains to keep the system working in harmony and further the "national interests", using surveillance and their access to power---and the tools of fear, ignorance and propaganda---to make the masses work for the system while believing they are free and living in a true democracy. Beautiful. Of course, these are not an US exclusive, many other countries are trying the same tricks, but it seems the US is far in the lead...

joehillen 13y ago
Don't forget Imprisonment. There are more people in prison in the US than anywhere else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_St...
fennecfoxen 13y ago
The US public education system really isn't doing a grand job teaching "patriotism" per se. Public school teachers, taken as a group nationwide, are notorious for being left-wing (and pro-union, and such.) The left wing has kind of been been down on Patriotism since around Vietnam or so, with only a brief interlude around Sep. 2001 through 2003 or so. Oh, sure, there are regional variations and exceptions, but Texas is probably the only one with a population behind it worth counting.

einhverfr 13y ago

> There isn't a name for the political system we find ourselves in at the moment. It works like this: you free to act as you wish as long as you respect a series of red lines that are never clearly formulated. All these red lines pertain to making changes of substance in the dominant political and economic system. I may seem fairly jaded in saying this but you have described, quite literally, every society in the world, and every society in history. Of course, in the West we like to pretend we have broken this pattern but we never did.

jobu 13y ago

How is what we have today so different from McCarthyism of the 1950's?

stefantalpalaru 13y ago
McCarthyism didn't completely vanish after the 1950s. Affiliation with communist organizations is still incompatible with naturalization: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideological_restrictions_on_naturalization_in_U.S._law#Current_ideological_restrictions_on_naturalization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideological_restrictions_on_na...

specialist 13y ago

The way I heard it: Ambiguous rules, ruthlessly enforced.