4 ms·

It's time to stop joking about IE like that. IE 11 is a fine Web browser these days. Yes, it took them a while to catch back up, but they have and they're a gen

It's time to stop joking about IE like that. IE 11 is a fine Web browser these days. Yes, it took them a while to catch back up, but they have and they're a genuinely modern browser today. Firefox is still a better browser, for a good number of reasons, not the least of which is Mozilla's mission to put users and the health of the Internet first, but Microsoft engineers working on IE for the last few years deserve more credit than they're getting. Shouldn't we be cheering for them to build the best they can instead of insulting them?

beagle3 13y ago
> Shouldn't we be cheering for them to build the best they can instead of insulting them? No, we shouldn't. Do you have any reason to believe that if IE became dominant again, Microsoft would not abuse its position once more? I don't. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice .... (And I wasn't fooled even once, but the Internet at large was). The onus of proving that they mean well is on Microsoft this time, and they're not living up to it. Ok then, I guess IE11 is an ok HTML5 browser (don't have windows, can't even test). But they fought against introducing WebGL (and lost), and they're still reluctant to introduce WebRTC.
- veidr 13y ago
  I think Asa is focusing more narrowly than you are. Both arguments are valid. As a browser, MSIE 11 is vastly better than previous versions. They took what was just about the shittiest browser on earth, and made it more or less OK. (Although Firefox and Chrome are both better.) From that limited perspective, kudos to them. As a corporation, though, Microsoft is still a toxic entity with poisonous effects on the ecosystems it participates in. It actively, brazenly works against the interests of the Internet user community as a whole, and those of its own customers. Microsoft the company is a bad actor on the scale of Oracle, Monsanto, Halliburton. So you're right, too.
  - BSousa 13y ago
    And Google isn't? Seriously. They drop products faster than Paris Hilton changes her hair color. They are involved in multi million settlements due to throwing their users privacy rights under a bus. Do you really want a browser from a company that is only interested in violating your privacy for a few extra dollars? Why put MS in the same league as Halliburton but give a free pass to Google? But kudos to Firefox thou, I don't use it normally, but form what I read and little I used, they actually care about the user.
    - veidr 13y ago
      I didn't say anything about Google. And, from what I can tell, Paris Hilton's hair color is pretty consistently blond: https://www.google.com/search?q=paris+hilton+hair+color&client=safari&rls=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Dwb4Uq2eFZGakgX3-oD4CA&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1383&bih=1116 https://www.google.com/search?q=paris+hilton+hair+color&clie...
rbanffy 13y ago
Microsoft has the best programmers money can buy. Mozilla has the ones money can't. ;-) The IE team deserves credit for their technical and managerial achievements - it's not easy to actually do something on a company that large.
slaman 13y ago
I really don't see a multi-billion dollar company finally 'catching up' after years of standards and security abuse worth any praise, and I still find IE's UI to be terrible to use. I'm glad they're finally starting to take some stress off of me as a developer, but there are still too many people running IE8 and 9 for me to like IE with any sort of passion..

beagle3 13y ago

> Shouldn't we be cheering for them to build the best they can instead of insulting them? No, we shouldn't. Do you have any reason to believe that if IE became dominant again, Microsoft would not abuse its position once more? I don't. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice .... (And I wasn't fooled even once, but the Internet at large was). The onus of proving that they mean well is on Microsoft this time, and they're not living up to it. Ok then, I guess IE11 is an ok HTML5 browser (don't have windows, can't even test). But they fought against introducing WebGL (and lost), and they're still reluctant to introduce WebRTC.

veidr 13y ago
I think Asa is focusing more narrowly than you are. Both arguments are valid. As a browser, MSIE 11 is vastly better than previous versions. They took what was just about the shittiest browser on earth, and made it more or less OK. (Although Firefox and Chrome are both better.) From that limited perspective, kudos to them. As a corporation, though, Microsoft is still a toxic entity with poisonous effects on the ecosystems it participates in. It actively, brazenly works against the interests of the Internet user community as a whole, and those of its own customers. Microsoft the company is a bad actor on the scale of Oracle, Monsanto, Halliburton. So you're right, too.
- BSousa 13y ago
  And Google isn't? Seriously. They drop products faster than Paris Hilton changes her hair color. They are involved in multi million settlements due to throwing their users privacy rights under a bus. Do you really want a browser from a company that is only interested in violating your privacy for a few extra dollars? Why put MS in the same league as Halliburton but give a free pass to Google? But kudos to Firefox thou, I don't use it normally, but form what I read and little I used, they actually care about the user.
  - veidr 13y ago
    I didn't say anything about Google. And, from what I can tell, Paris Hilton's hair color is pretty consistently blond: https://www.google.com/search?q=paris+hilton+hair+color&client=safari&rls=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Dwb4Uq2eFZGakgX3-oD4CA&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1383&bih=1116 https://www.google.com/search?q=paris+hilton+hair+color&clie...

rbanffy 13y ago

Microsoft has the best programmers money can buy. Mozilla has the ones money can't. ;-) The IE team deserves credit for their technical and managerial achievements - it's not easy to actually do something on a company that large.

slaman 13y ago

I really don't see a multi-billion dollar company finally 'catching up' after years of standards and security abuse worth any praise, and I still find IE's UI to be terrible to use. I'm glad they're finally starting to take some stress off of me as a developer, but there are still too many people running IE8 and 9 for me to like IE with any sort of passion..