5 ms·

Lottie Dexter should quit – and take the Year of Code board with her

41 points by tommorris 13y ago

anigbrowl 13y ago
The interview is screamingly funny, more so if you're British or otherwise familiar with Jeremy Paxman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7x7GYItzS4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7x7GYItzS4
- adamnemecek 13y ago
  Is the moderator really snickering about the uselessness of programming at the very end? Does he live in the 1950's?
  - anigbrowl 13y ago
    No, he's being ironic. He's famous for this brusque and dismissive style.
  - tommorris 13y ago
    Yes. Paxman—though he is great at holding politician's feet to the fire—is an Oxbridge old boy who has very little time for science and tech and is very much stuck in the old Two Cultures model of science vs. humanities. In his mind, there are the privately educated, Oxbridge Classics/PPE (Politics, Philosophy, Economics) crowd who run the world through politics or business, then there are basically not particularly valuable "geeks" or "boffins" who do their bidding on technical matters. He's great at interviewing Prime Ministers and holding their feet to the fire, but like a lot of journalists, he doesn't really get science and tech stuff.
- sync 13y ago
  Here's a direct link to the start of the interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-7x7GYItzS4#t=332 https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-7...
- jchung 13y ago
  This is outrageous. How was she appointed to her position?
  - tommorris 13y ago
    Easy. She is a young Conservative activist and the government wanted to give her a job.
logn 13y ago
I don't think this will do much good. I was forced to take 5 years of Spanish through school. Hardly know how to speak it now. The people who excel are usually driven by their own interest. Nothing makes something miserable like a gov't/school mandate.
- sp332 13y ago
  Making it visible and accessible is important. Otherwise how would people find out that they really liked Spanish, US Civil War history, or programming?
  - vezzy-fnord 13y ago
    It is visible and accessible. Perhaps not if your only interaction is with the smartphone singularity, but I agree with the OP that programming is largely self-guided. Making it a compulsory school subject isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it is distressing as to how well it'll actually be taught, whether good impressions will be received from it and whether or not it will be deceiving. Schools aren't known for being apt at actually fostering education (but rather routine and rote), much less being engaging. I have a feeling this will be simply an excuse for the education system to ostensibly appear progressive and forward-thinking, but without actually providing decent resources. An exercise in flaunting that will likely have no actual effect on student impressions, especially not if typical public school teaching methods are employed. I think that it's better to have no real understanding of coding than no understanding whatsoever. That and I honestly think system administration is more important for most people. Learning to code without learning sysadmin work and how your environment actually functions is an unfilled gap.
    - sp332 13y ago
      There's no reason programming has to be self-guided any more than math or history. The numbers show that kids have basically no exposure to programming in school http://techland.time.com/2012/07/16/can-we-fix-computer-science-education-in-america/ http://techland.time.com/2012/07/16/can-we-fix-computer-scie...
tobych 13y ago
Ain't it program, not programme, always?
- tommorris 13y ago
  No. UK/US difference.
- mverwijs 13y ago
  Isn't it isn't it, not ain't it?
scotth 13y ago
The interview was fine. She described code as it is. Frankly, it isn't important whether she knows how to code. It isn't her job. She's an example to no one. All that matters is that the program is properly marketed, and that the teachers are competent.
- pfraze 13y ago
  Mmm, I'm not so sure. She's a spokesperson for code education telling a journalist that it's easy to code, and she doesn't know how. If she has to speak for the program like that, she should understand its learning process.
  - mverwijs 13y ago
    But coding is easy to learn. It is not rocket science. It is merely language and syntax to learn the basics. They teach math without expecting kids to become math-gurus. How is code different?
spamizbad 13y ago
I'm amazed at the pace they think they can get teachers up to speed with coding. Learning to code in a few months while working full time, and knowing it well enough to teach others? That doesn't seem like enough time to prepare the teachers.
- thesimpsons1022 13y ago
  she said you can learn to teach in a few minutes :D
  - scotth 13y ago
    I think that was just a slip up. Watch how she acts while answering. I have leniency for things like that. I'm sure if given the chance she would have a reasonable explanation.
    - svisser 13y ago
      Why? Isn't that the worrying part? She should have the knowledge and experience to realistically explain why coding matters and how long it takes to learn it.
lettergram 13y ago
"This gobbly goop will help them build websites.."
edderly 13y ago
Anyone vaguely technical would cringe at the Lottie Dexter interview, and the first and easiest reaction is to just bemoan the boneheadedness of government trying to yet another shallow initiative headed by (apparently) shallow people. Then again, it’s worth considering that the there is enough work to do to just get technical skills on the educational agenda. That requires getting attention, and it just might be that Dexter might be more relatable than a domain expert. BTW, I think a truly ambitious initiative would be built on free software. With FOSS it's easier to explain how people who know how to code can use those skills to make changes to things that they use rather than just be consumers or specialists.
auvi 13y ago
she says "you can pick it up in a day".
jarmitage 13y ago
I'd be interested to hear from our friends over the pond how this compares to the Code.org initiative. It seems to me there are some similarities in the 'boneheadedness' of the approach. What do people think? Reminder: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7045202 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7045202
youngtaff 13y ago
From reading various Twitter conversations it seems there are some egos at play here - read between the lines on some of @thayer's tweets

41 points by tommorris 13y ago

The interview is screamingly funny, more so if you're British or otherwise familiar with Jeremy Paxman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7x7GYItzS4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7x7GYItzS4

adamnemecek 13y ago
Is the moderator really snickering about the uselessness of programming at the very end? Does he live in the 1950's?
- anigbrowl 13y ago
  No, he's being ironic. He's famous for this brusque and dismissive style.
- tommorris 13y ago
  Yes. Paxman—though he is great at holding politician's feet to the fire—is an Oxbridge old boy who has very little time for science and tech and is very much stuck in the old Two Cultures model of science vs. humanities. In his mind, there are the privately educated, Oxbridge Classics/PPE (Politics, Philosophy, Economics) crowd who run the world through politics or business, then there are basically not particularly valuable "geeks" or "boffins" who do their bidding on technical matters. He's great at interviewing Prime Ministers and holding their feet to the fire, but like a lot of journalists, he doesn't really get science and tech stuff.
sync 13y ago
Here's a direct link to the start of the interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-7x7GYItzS4#t=332 https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-7...
jchung 13y ago
This is outrageous. How was she appointed to her position?
- tommorris 13y ago
  Easy. She is a young Conservative activist and the government wanted to give her a job.

logn 13y ago

I don't think this will do much good. I was forced to take 5 years of Spanish through school. Hardly know how to speak it now. The people who excel are usually driven by their own interest. Nothing makes something miserable like a gov't/school mandate.

sp332 13y ago
Making it visible and accessible is important. Otherwise how would people find out that they really liked Spanish, US Civil War history, or programming?
- vezzy-fnord 13y ago
  It is visible and accessible. Perhaps not if your only interaction is with the smartphone singularity, but I agree with the OP that programming is largely self-guided. Making it a compulsory school subject isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it is distressing as to how well it'll actually be taught, whether good impressions will be received from it and whether or not it will be deceiving. Schools aren't known for being apt at actually fostering education (but rather routine and rote), much less being engaging. I have a feeling this will be simply an excuse for the education system to ostensibly appear progressive and forward-thinking, but without actually providing decent resources. An exercise in flaunting that will likely have no actual effect on student impressions, especially not if typical public school teaching methods are employed. I think that it's better to have no real understanding of coding than no understanding whatsoever. That and I honestly think system administration is more important for most people. Learning to code without learning sysadmin work and how your environment actually functions is an unfilled gap.
  - sp332 13y ago
    There's no reason programming has to be self-guided any more than math or history. The numbers show that kids have basically no exposure to programming in school http://techland.time.com/2012/07/16/can-we-fix-computer-science-education-in-america/ http://techland.time.com/2012/07/16/can-we-fix-computer-scie...

tobych 13y ago

Ain't it program, not programme, always?

tommorris 13y ago
No. UK/US difference.
mverwijs 13y ago
Isn't it isn't it, not ain't it?

scotth 13y ago

The interview was fine. She described code as it is. Frankly, it isn't important whether she knows how to code. It isn't her job. She's an example to no one. All that matters is that the program is properly marketed, and that the teachers are competent.

pfraze 13y ago
Mmm, I'm not so sure. She's a spokesperson for code education telling a journalist that it's easy to code, and she doesn't know how. If she has to speak for the program like that, she should understand its learning process.
- mverwijs 13y ago
  But coding is easy to learn. It is not rocket science. It is merely language and syntax to learn the basics. They teach math without expecting kids to become math-gurus. How is code different?

spamizbad 13y ago

I'm amazed at the pace they think they can get teachers up to speed with coding. Learning to code in a few months while working full time, and knowing it well enough to teach others? That doesn't seem like enough time to prepare the teachers.

thesimpsons1022 13y ago
she said you can learn to teach in a few minutes :D
- scotth 13y ago
  I think that was just a slip up. Watch how she acts while answering. I have leniency for things like that. I'm sure if given the chance she would have a reasonable explanation.
  - svisser 13y ago
    Why? Isn't that the worrying part? She should have the knowledge and experience to realistically explain why coding matters and how long it takes to learn it.

lettergram 13y ago

"This gobbly goop will help them build websites.."

edderly 13y ago

Anyone vaguely technical would cringe at the Lottie Dexter interview, and the first and easiest reaction is to just bemoan the boneheadedness of government trying to yet another shallow initiative headed by (apparently) shallow people. Then again, it’s worth considering that the there is enough work to do to just get technical skills on the educational agenda. That requires getting attention, and it just might be that Dexter might be more relatable than a domain expert. BTW, I think a truly ambitious initiative would be built on free software. With FOSS it's easier to explain how people who know how to code can use those skills to make changes to things that they use rather than just be consumers or specialists.

auvi 13y ago

she says "you can pick it up in a day".

jarmitage 13y ago

I'd be interested to hear from our friends over the pond how this compares to the Code.org initiative. It seems to me there are some similarities in the 'boneheadedness' of the approach. What do people think? Reminder: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7045202 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7045202

youngtaff 13y ago

From reading various Twitter conversations it seems there are some egos at play here - read between the lines on some of @thayer's tweets