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I think it's pretty clear if you want something without the viruses/spyware and is less annoying you get a Mac, as long as you can afford it. If you are short f

by rythie 17y ago

I think it's pretty clear if you want something without the viruses/spyware and is less annoying you get a Mac, as long as you can afford it. If you are short for money you end up on a Windows PC. Or at least that is perception amongst the general public. I don't think Apple have any interest in selling something at lower price points, because like Sony, Porsche etc. their brand is of a better quality product which of course should cost more. SGI, Sun, HP all used to sell high end workstations at the top the market (~2-20x more than what Apple charged at the time) - that market got eaten by PCs when they couldn't differentiate anymore. Unlike those high end machines, Apple has no performance advantage over PCs. Apple's only real difference is the OS. Apple's emerging threat is Linux/Open Source, which has many of the same advantages OS X over Windows does and of course was good enough for Apple to take a kernel, browser and printing system from. Linux/Open Source doesn't have to be better than OS X - it just has to be better than Windows and good enough that people don't want to spend extra on a Mac. Edit: this is classic "The Innovator's Dilemma": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disruptive_technology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disruptive_technology

mikecuesta 17y ago
I don't think for a second that Linux/Open Source is an emerging threat to OS X, sorry.
- whatusername 17y ago
  To be honest - as a relatively new Ubuntu user - and an occasional OSX user - trying to get stuff done on the mac is beginning to annoy me more and more. Apple make some fantastic software - the iLife suite is pretty awesome. That might be reason enough to buy one - (and the hardware design is typically good as well). But just looking at the OS - and what I use the system for on a day to day basis - and Apple's advantage in the OS space is a lot less than it used to be. (And snow leopard doesn't look like changing that from an end user perspective)
- plinkplonk 17y ago
  rythie said, "Apple's emerging threat is Linux/Open Source, because " [reasons] to which you (mikecuesta)replied "I don't think for a second that Linux/Open Source is an emerging threat to OS X, " with no rationale or logic to support that viewpoint. "I don't think X", without supporting reasons is an almost meaningless response in a discussion. I am surprised it got so many upvotes. Just imagine someone responded to you with "Oh yeah? I do think so" without providing any rationale. Your response could validate rythie's "classical innovator's dilemma" argument, since in a classic innovator's dilemma the proponents of the disrupted product never "think for a second" that the disrupting product is "an emerging threat" till it is too late.
smokinn 17y ago
That's probably never going to happen though. Another big reason why Apple fans pay a premium is for the seamless integration experience that doesn't make you think. Since Apple controls 100% of the hardware it can ensure that there are never any problems like x drivers that crash randomly and take your system down. Linux will always be oriented towards the hobbyist type that, when things break down, opens up the box and tinkers inside. Linux can't control the hardware it's deployed on so it'll always be at a massive disadvantage.
- rythie 17y ago
  I used a Windows XP laptop for the first time in ages yesterday, it struck me just how cumbersome that is compared to Linux. This is the process I saw: I inserted a USB thumb drive, it asked me if I want to install something or other, giving some warning that Microsoft hadn't approved it or something. Then I plugged in a mouse - it did the same thing. Then I started Office and again with something about installing and then asked my name. Even that process is simplified since someone had already installed/bought Office which doesn't normally come with as full version on most machines nowadays. To do the same on a fresh install of Ubuntu I just plug in the USB stick and double click - I never get asked anything. I would say Ubuntu is already better than Windows XP.
  - zimbabwe 17y ago
    There's a chance Ubuntu is better than the years-old operating system. I've had Ubuntu driver issues with all three of my attempted installs, but if I hadn't had those issues I might prefer it to Windows XP for some things. That said, Windows 7 (and even most of Windows Vista) is more polished than Ubuntu in its current state, and its plug-and-play is much better.
    - rythie 17y ago
      If Windows 7 is as good as people say that it's self would take a cut into Apple's products.
      - 17y ago
deleted 17y ago
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Dilpil 17y ago
It is also pretty clear that if you want to play high end games on your computer, you buy a PC. I'm not sure it will be this way forever- if Mac continues to gain popularity more games will probably be released for Mac- but as it stands Mac isn't even an option for gamers like me (or any other non windows OS).
- rythie 17y ago
  It is also pretty clear that if you do play high end games you end up spending a lot on hardware upgrades. I doubt that the Mac can really compete in the market for high end games since most of the machines it sells are not very upgradeable.
  - Maktab 17y ago
    The age of PC gaming being a driving force behind sales is coming to an end though. It's just too expensive and too much of a hassle, both for developers and end-users, which is why console games are bringing in over twice as much revenue than PC games these days. A market for enthusiast PC gamers who value the customisability they get will, of course, persist, but the mainstream is going elsewhere and moving into gaming appliances like consoles. And if somebody's got an XBox 360 or PS3 for their gaming needs, does it really matter to them how well their computer plays games? The trend in gaming right now is working in Apple's favour, not against it and the fact that Apple does not have a place in its line-up for a customisable gaming machine is becoming increasingly irrelevant.
    - rythie 17y ago
      This also works in Linux's favor too - I have a Wii.

by rythie 17y ago

mikecuesta 17y ago

I don't think for a second that Linux/Open Source is an emerging threat to OS X, sorry.

whatusername 17y ago
To be honest - as a relatively new Ubuntu user - and an occasional OSX user - trying to get stuff done on the mac is beginning to annoy me more and more. Apple make some fantastic software - the iLife suite is pretty awesome. That might be reason enough to buy one - (and the hardware design is typically good as well). But just looking at the OS - and what I use the system for on a day to day basis - and Apple's advantage in the OS space is a lot less than it used to be. (And snow leopard doesn't look like changing that from an end user perspective)
plinkplonk 17y ago
rythie said, "Apple's emerging threat is Linux/Open Source, because " [reasons] to which you (mikecuesta)replied "I don't think for a second that Linux/Open Source is an emerging threat to OS X, " with no rationale or logic to support that viewpoint. "I don't think X", without supporting reasons is an almost meaningless response in a discussion. I am surprised it got so many upvotes. Just imagine someone responded to you with "Oh yeah? I do think so" without providing any rationale. Your response could validate rythie's "classical innovator's dilemma" argument, since in a classic innovator's dilemma the proponents of the disrupted product never "think for a second" that the disrupting product is "an emerging threat" till it is too late.

smokinn 17y ago

That's probably never going to happen though. Another big reason why Apple fans pay a premium is for the seamless integration experience that doesn't make you think. Since Apple controls 100% of the hardware it can ensure that there are never any problems like x drivers that crash randomly and take your system down. Linux will always be oriented towards the hobbyist type that, when things break down, opens up the box and tinkers inside. Linux can't control the hardware it's deployed on so it'll always be at a massive disadvantage.

rythie 17y ago
I used a Windows XP laptop for the first time in ages yesterday, it struck me just how cumbersome that is compared to Linux. This is the process I saw: I inserted a USB thumb drive, it asked me if I want to install something or other, giving some warning that Microsoft hadn't approved it or something. Then I plugged in a mouse - it did the same thing. Then I started Office and again with something about installing and then asked my name. Even that process is simplified since someone had already installed/bought Office which doesn't normally come with as full version on most machines nowadays. To do the same on a fresh install of Ubuntu I just plug in the USB stick and double click - I never get asked anything. I would say Ubuntu is already better than Windows XP.
- zimbabwe 17y ago
  There's a chance Ubuntu is better than the years-old operating system. I've had Ubuntu driver issues with all three of my attempted installs, but if I hadn't had those issues I might prefer it to Windows XP for some things. That said, Windows 7 (and even most of Windows Vista) is more polished than Ubuntu in its current state, and its plug-and-play is much better.
  - rythie 17y ago
    If Windows 7 is as good as people say that it's self would take a cut into Apple's products.
    - 17y ago

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

Dilpil 17y ago

It is also pretty clear that if you want to play high end games on your computer, you buy a PC. I'm not sure it will be this way forever- if Mac continues to gain popularity more games will probably be released for Mac- but as it stands Mac isn't even an option for gamers like me (or any other non windows OS).

rythie 17y ago
It is also pretty clear that if you do play high end games you end up spending a lot on hardware upgrades. I doubt that the Mac can really compete in the market for high end games since most of the machines it sells are not very upgradeable.
- Maktab 17y ago
  The age of PC gaming being a driving force behind sales is coming to an end though. It's just too expensive and too much of a hassle, both for developers and end-users, which is why console games are bringing in over twice as much revenue than PC games these days. A market for enthusiast PC gamers who value the customisability they get will, of course, persist, but the mainstream is going elsewhere and moving into gaming appliances like consoles. And if somebody's got an XBox 360 or PS3 for their gaming needs, does it really matter to them how well their computer plays games? The trend in gaming right now is working in Apple's favour, not against it and the fact that Apple does not have a place in its line-up for a customisable gaming machine is becoming increasingly irrelevant.
  - rythie 17y ago
    This also works in Linux's favor too - I have a Wii.