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Some would argue that your programming position is too manly, that the programming field itself is too insulated with the male gender and that it should be seen

Some would argue that your programming position is too manly, that the programming field itself is too insulated with the male gender and that it should be seen as less of a boy's club and more of an equal ground for all. Weird, when you think about it. Clicking and typing. I suppose there's some rhetoric about "X is better at math than Y and programming is based on math" but at the end of the day it just seems like bologna. And it doesn't address any insecurities you may have as an individual who is also a man. My solution, though, as a man is to simply not care about being a man. I'm a person. I've got all the skills of all genders because I believe all skills are, unto themselves, genderless. Mannerisms, fashion, hair-styles, etc. can follow as well but really, they don't bug me. I've got other interests in mind. I think we, as a society of computer users and consumers, have all these other worlds to fancy ourselves with nowadays. Sometimes I catch myself in the mirror and have to realize I am not just some running narrative but a person with "roles" and "definitions" It can be a bit jarring. Still, that passes and I'm back to being me, my little identity, not caring about gender roles and other hang-ups like that. I hope some day that everyone can be happy being themselves and not have to question "What does it mean to be X, and how do I follow that rulebook?" Instead we should ask, "What does it mean to be me?"

guard-of-terra 13y ago
"a boy's club" My concern with programming as a field that it's neither equal nor manly. It might be a boy's club but consisting of boys who're "not getting any". A lot of boys' rude talks just mask them being afraid of actually interacting with women, you know. WRT bologna: I have a colleague who is like two meter tall and very big. He could easily smith horseshoes on but what he actually does is programming: click and type. And he's pretty good at that, too. This is a bit comical. "as a man is to simply not care about being a man" I don't think this will work sexuality-wise. My bottom line: male sexuality becomes more and more tricky and real men (who are pretty simple and straight creatures after all) fall short of it.
- Einstalbert 13y ago
  I'm glad you have concerns about programming as a field and I feel as though they are valid. It's not my fight, though, so I wish you luck. I agree it isn't equal, in many definitions of the word, but I wouldn't necessarily associate it with manly or womanly in terms of sexuality/identity. It's simply a field. A field that has, up until now, been primarily men and perhaps even primarily negative men and perhaps, again, men who are negative towards women because they are insecure about it. I think it says more about them than the field, but I could be wrong. I still stand by the thought that programming is inherently nothing other than a field, ripe for societies to use or abuse as they will. I could say the same about any field, teaching children I guess is the opposite at least in terms of number by gender. Not sure what the large, burly man colleague of yours has to do with my point, though. He could be a four foot tall waif and I wouldn't think any differently of the field. I work with many said waifs and I make no distinction. Sexuality, as I've found, can be fluid even within the boundaries of something like being straight. Your bottom line is interesting, but mine is more or less, "Don't feel bad about falling short of something you have complete control of." There's no reason to feel as though you need to live up to some definition of sexuality when it involves identity. Carve your own identity. It isn't easy, and it isn't straightforward, but I trust humans to be more than simple creatures.
  - guard-of-terra 13y ago
    WRT boy's club: my main idea was that of all behaviours associated with men, not every one is perceived masculine. "Boy's club" isn't for example. That programming is male-dominated doesn't imply that programming is perceived masculine.
  - wlievens 13y ago
    I've never met these elusive mysterious men in the software industry that are negative towards women, or towards the idea of women working in the software industry. I have however met plenty of women (high school era mostly) who were very negative about the software industry because it "is not about people" and involves "sitting at a desk all day". So I guess these same women today just work some other desk job that just pays half as much, so they complain about gender income inequality. Don't want to be sexist here; I would strongly encourage anyone (male or female) to work in our exciting industry. I just don't think men are more to blame for the imbalance than women.

guard-of-terra 13y ago

"a boy's club" My concern with programming as a field that it's neither equal nor manly. It might be a boy's club but consisting of boys who're "not getting any". A lot of boys' rude talks just mask them being afraid of actually interacting with women, you know. WRT bologna: I have a colleague who is like two meter tall and very big. He could easily smith horseshoes on but what he actually does is programming: click and type. And he's pretty good at that, too. This is a bit comical. "as a man is to simply not care about being a man" I don't think this will work sexuality-wise. My bottom line: male sexuality becomes more and more tricky and real men (who are pretty simple and straight creatures after all) fall short of it.

Einstalbert 13y ago
I'm glad you have concerns about programming as a field and I feel as though they are valid. It's not my fight, though, so I wish you luck. I agree it isn't equal, in many definitions of the word, but I wouldn't necessarily associate it with manly or womanly in terms of sexuality/identity. It's simply a field. A field that has, up until now, been primarily men and perhaps even primarily negative men and perhaps, again, men who are negative towards women because they are insecure about it. I think it says more about them than the field, but I could be wrong. I still stand by the thought that programming is inherently nothing other than a field, ripe for societies to use or abuse as they will. I could say the same about any field, teaching children I guess is the opposite at least in terms of number by gender. Not sure what the large, burly man colleague of yours has to do with my point, though. He could be a four foot tall waif and I wouldn't think any differently of the field. I work with many said waifs and I make no distinction. Sexuality, as I've found, can be fluid even within the boundaries of something like being straight. Your bottom line is interesting, but mine is more or less, "Don't feel bad about falling short of something you have complete control of." There's no reason to feel as though you need to live up to some definition of sexuality when it involves identity. Carve your own identity. It isn't easy, and it isn't straightforward, but I trust humans to be more than simple creatures.
- guard-of-terra 13y ago
  WRT boy's club: my main idea was that of all behaviours associated with men, not every one is perceived masculine. "Boy's club" isn't for example. That programming is male-dominated doesn't imply that programming is perceived masculine.
- wlievens 13y ago
  I've never met these elusive mysterious men in the software industry that are negative towards women, or towards the idea of women working in the software industry. I have however met plenty of women (high school era mostly) who were very negative about the software industry because it "is not about people" and involves "sitting at a desk all day". So I guess these same women today just work some other desk job that just pays half as much, so they complain about gender income inequality. Don't want to be sexist here; I would strongly encourage anyone (male or female) to work in our exciting industry. I just don't think men are more to blame for the imbalance than women.