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Russia Bans Bitcoin
- dasil003 13y agoDo they have a new source for this? It reads remarkably like the single story posted yesterday which someone suggested could be the result of speculators spreading misinformation through hackery or otherwise.
- waterlesscloud 13y agoThere was a regulatory meeting Thursday in Russia, this appears to be the result. Conflicting information on whether individuals can still trade in bitcoin legally. If so, this would leave Russia in pretty much the same boat as China.
- mlvljr 13y agoComing from Russia, and skimming through related news today, I get an impression, nothing is banned (by any means). What they might do at some point, is prohibit selling goods for bc, this is possible. Mining / exchanging and buying outside of the country, or buying virtual goods will not go anywhere for sure :) Again, another Orwellian-themed fake news about my place (or am I getting paranoid?) UPD: just read the article at http://genproc.gov.ru/smi/news/genproc/news-86432/ http://genproc.gov.ru/smi/news/genproc/news-86432/ -- yep, no new laws, nothing -- "measures will be taken to prevent fraud, etc." The overall impression is, they are going (a some point, not now) to explicitly delegitimize cryptocurrencies as a means to make payments officialy, but not ban / outlaw using the mining tools, or exchanging the bitcoins.
- canvia 13y agoYou make a lot of posts defending the Russian government.
- mlvljr 13y agoYeah, I am getting close to counter-balancing the CNN :)
- coldtea 13y agoWhy, should he be making the opposite? It's a government, people, lots of people, have voted FOR it, and support its actions. Lots of Americans in HN make lots of comments defending the US government and the US point of view. Actually the American point of the view (not just in politics: in life, about startups, society, etc) is the constant undertone on everything written here. Just because to somebody, as an American, when he champions such things it feels to him like he is stating the "natural law" (instead of man made ethics and opinions) doesn't change that fact.
- eatitraw 13y agoI'm from Russia too, and my understanding that the situation is not that bright: they clearly declare that <<bitcoin is "money surrogate" and cannot be used>>(used as money?). What they _might_ do at some point is in fact allow trading bitcoin itself just like China. They declare that they are concerned "protecting interests of users of cryptocurrencies", so there is hope.
- mlvljr 13y agoWe'll see, so far this has resulted in bc <-> Russial PayPal clones / alternative operations being (willingly, I'm sure) blocked by that exchange site from the top comment.
- perlpimp 13y agothis smells of old days when ruble collapsed and people started using dollar as a shadow agreed upon currency.
- kyleblarson 13y agoBlue Horseshoe LOVES Anicott Steel......
- filmgirlcw 13y agoThe source appears to be the Russian Government[1] [1]: http://genproc.gov.ru/smi/news/genproc/news-86432/ http://genproc.gov.ru/smi/news/genproc/news-86432/
- gtt 13y agoThis is not a ban exactly in a sense that there is no law baning bitcoin, but by results of this meeting they (Prosecutors office mostly) decided that some existing law could be used against not clear who. The whole situation is not clear either.
- irqed 13y agoYep, not yet. But I'd like to see how they will be banning PGP.
- gtt 13y agoI hope they won't but why would they want to ban PGP in first place?
- twoodfin 13y agoWhy would the Russian government want to ban encryption they can't break? Can't imagine. More seriously, I assume there's a longstanding suspicion that any Western encryption technology has been engineered to be vulnerable, which isn't totally paranoid.
- drdaeman 13y agoWell, IMNAL, but laws seem to imply that developing, supporting and distributing cryptographic solutions without appropriate FSB-provided license is banned, although I never heard anyone had issues with hosting, say, Debian mirror with GnuPG and OpenSSL, or adding TLS support to some product. But it may be well possible that laws are there but it's just that no one cares to enforce them. On the other hand, use is legal, except if user is state-owned and municipal corporations. Those must use only FSB-licensed solutions.
- andreash 13y ago"It's still the same warning. no more, no less" https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=452894.msg4990618#msg4990618 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=452894.msg4990618#ms...
- new_test 13y agoCould someone please ELI5 if I was a very wealthy Russian criminal involved, say, in counterfeit, drugs, human trafficking and/or technological scams, how exactly can bitcoin help me "launder" my wealth?
- pdq 13y agoDrug dealers have tons of cash they can't put in a bank, per government regulations on disclosure. People with tons of bitcoins may want to cash out a part of their nest egg. They get together and trade cash for BTC. Now the dealers can go on any exchange, and convert the BTC back to digital currency, then can transfer into their bank.
- new_test 13y agoThat doesn't make sense to me. You're saying the banks won't let the criminal put their cash in the bank, but if the criminal converts the cash to bitcoins and back to real money they somehow will? Either way I don't think places like Dubai or Switzerland have any problem with Russian drug money.
- acgourley 13y agoIt's easier to drip out as you need it, which is less suspicious
- shiftpgdn 13y agoOr exchange for goods outside the traditional financial system.
- rdl 13y agoPhysical cash to local bitcoins (placement); send bitcoins abroad and/or invest them in a bitcoin related busines (layering, integration), report bitcoin profits in that jurisdiction and bring them into banking system (integration).
- tlrobinson 13y ago
- amurmann 13y agoWell, I understand why the Russian government is doing this. I don't have much confidence in the Ruble and am pretty sure I am not the only one. So BTC might be a viable alternative. An alternative that the Russian government has no control over.
- pdx 13y agoFrom BTCE (google-translated from Russian) Dear participants of the project BTC-e.com! In connection with decision-making in relation to the crypto-currency in Russia working with Qiwi suspended indefinitely, as well as with other payment systems in Russia. All financial obligations will be met in full without the means available additional commissions. encourage you to use the system okpay (USD, EUR), interest on the conclusion on it is reduced to zero. apologize for any inconvenience. Sincerely support btc-e.com
- javert 13y agoRussia is a joke of a country. Their dictator just spent $51 billion looted from the people on a failed winter Olympics.
- whatevsbro 13y agoEvery country is a joke of a country, in case you haven't noticed. The ruling class everywhere lives large on money looted from the general populace.
- sabbatic13 13y agoWell said. For most problems in the world, people are quick to point to a certain country, race ethnicity, religion, etc. as the most glaring example or source, when in fact people are the problems. No part of humanity can boast the largest amount of any vice or virtue. As a species, we're just faulty.
- javert 13y agoThis is a false generalization.
- javert 13y agoTo vastly differing degrees. The US from 1776 to about 1880 > the US of today > Russia of today > Soviet Union > North Korea.
- whatevsbro 13y agoWhat I said applies to every single country in the history of the world. Is your point that light looting is better than extreme looting + torture camps? Sure, but it's still looting.
- mrfusion 13y agoJust curious if there are any countries that are very pro bitcoin?
- gregcrv 13y agoProbably not... I don't think it's in any country's interest for now. But here's an interesting story I just found: http://www.policeone.com/police-administration/articles/6643566-Chief-asks-to-be-paid-in-Bitcoin-city-approves/ http://www.policeone.com/police-administration/articles/6643...
- at-fates-hands 13y agoI would think with Russia and China banning BitCoin, it would make the currency more valuable. This seems counter intuitive to how the BTC market responding by crashing after the Chinese announcement. Does BTC follow the same economic principles as standard currency. Such as your basic supply/demand, when supply goes down, demand goes up and price goes up. Or is it immune to such things? Just curious. . .
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- oillio 13y agoI think it is performing as you would expect. When China/Russia bans Bitcoin, it reduces the demand as law abiding citizens stop using it. Reduced demand leads to reduced prices.
- leobelle 13y ago> Reduced demand leads to reduced prices. This is probably true in this case. In the case of physical goods it is not always true. If there is continued demand but less of it, prices can rise for some goods because the fixed costs of manufacturing increase on a per item basis as you can't buy materials in as much volume. Increased costs of manufacturing an item will lead to higher prices for the consumer. Thus reduced demand does not always lead to reduced prices.
- oillio 13y agoTrue. This is economics, there are no hard and fast rules. In fact, I would say that the moment a hard and fast rule is discovered, is the exact moment that it becomes invalid. However, even in your example, the higher prices will only come in time. This is assuming we are talking about a commodity good that is traded on an open market. The immediate effect of a sudden reduction in demand is an increase in inventories on the sell side. If there is no expectation of resumption of demand, the inventory holders are likely to panic and sell at a reduced price to cut inventories. This is a classic case of "first out the door wins" and is what crashes are made of. They will also cut manufacturing (or mining or farming), but the affect of this on the price will only manifest once the reduction in production makes it through the supply chain. For something like corn, this could take upwards of a year. Obviously, all this is affected by a large number of variables: warehousing costs, profit margins, manufacturing complexity and lead time, pricing power, tooling costs and other capital expenditures, etc.
- acd 13y agoWe should note the timing when the world is distracted by the olympic games starting ceremony.
- usaphp 13y agoWhat a ridiculous title and a story itself, absolutely ridiculous, where do they get the information from to post such bold titles. Bitcoin is NOT banned in Russia, there is a warning to russians posted by central bank of Russia [1], warning is to notify people about dangers of using bitcoins, that's it! There is NO law that bans bitcoins in Russia, people are free to use if they want to, goverment is just warning you that it might be dangerouse. Like smoking cigarettes, there is no law that bans you from smoking, but the health organizations are warning you that it can be dangerous for your health. I am sick of this sort of stories which make to top of hacker news like the recent one by NBC about being "hacked" in Sochi [2] which was pathetically demolished by HN community [3] [1]: http://www.consultant.ru/document/cons_doc_LAW_158121/ http://www.consultant.ru/document/cons_doc_LAW_158121/ [2]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waEeJJVZ5P8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waEeJJVZ5P8 [3]: http://blog.erratasec.com/2014/02/that-nbc-story-100-fraudulent.html http://blog.erratasec.com/2014/02/that-nbc-story-100-fraudul...
- nullc 13y agohm. the common understanding (from Russians) in Bitcoin IRC back in 2011 was that all transactions for foreign currency _and_, insane enough, all _barter_ was technically illegal in Russia, and so Bitcoin probably was too... but at the same time no one cares about those laws so it was irrelevant.
- VladRussian2 13y ago" В соответствии со ст. 27 Федерального закона «О Центральном банке Российской Федерации» «официальной денежной единицей (валютой) Российской Федерации является рубль. Введение на территории России других денежных единиц и выпуск денежных суррогатов запрещается». Получившие определенное распространение анонимные платежные системы и криптовалюты, в том числе наиболее известная из них – Биткойн, являются денежными суррогатами и не могут быть использованы гражданами и юридическими лицами. " translation: "According to the title 27 of the Federal Law "On Central Bank of Russian Federation" "the official currency of Russian Federation is rouble. Issue (introduction) of other currencies and currency surrogates on the territory of Russia is prohibited". Anonymous payment systems and cryptocurrencies, including the most popular - Bitcoin, are currency surrogates and can't be used by physical persons and corporations. " This determination - bitcoin as a currency surrogate - was made by the "expert group" consisting of high level bureaucrats from the enforcement side, ie. Central Bank, FSB, police (police in Russia is one big vertically integrated structure from local to federal level), Attorney General office.
- pmorici 13y agoIt's my understanding that this isn't about Bitcoin per say but a general law that makes it illegal to transact in any foreign currency unless you are a bank licensed for Forex. USD and EUR and similarly not allowed.
- nikcub 13y agoThat is exactly it. Because of the instability in the economy during the 90s where most Russians abandoned the ruble and used USD the Russians heavily regulated all non-ruble currencies as a way to force stability. This notice is more a reminder that bitcoin is treated as other non-ruble currencies are. I'd assume most of the Russian based markets already knew that. The laws are there but they are extremely difficult to police, while you can't just open a bank account and accept USD (which you need a license for) there is still a large grey economy.
- ck2 13y agohttp://bitlegal.io/nation/RU.php http://bitlegal.io/nation/RU.php
- Steko 13y ago"you can’t prevent Russians from using Bitcoin" Haha, tell that to the guys with the jackboots and machine guns.
- sabbatic13 13y agoWell, point taken, but when it comes to doing things under the radar on the web, you must admit, Russians are just really good. For a certain slice of the online population, such laws won't change much.
- ndesaulniers 13y agoObligatory: In Soviet Russia, Bitcoin bans Russia.