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Nothing Keeps Apple From Making an Android Phone Except Common Sense

18 points by JonSkeptic 13y ago

al2o3cr 13y ago
"And Android is outpacing Apple in the cheaper markets that are gaining importance, so there’s a sort of intuitive sense in the move, if you’re willing to twist the logic into uncomfortable directions." s/Android/Windows/, move it back ten years, and then count how many PC OEMs are still in the business today. Did I miss the part where "Businessweek" became a "how to light your money on fire" journal?
blueskin_ 13y ago
All the article really needed to say was "but then Apple fans would try an Android phone, realise the software is better (and likely start experimenting with having root access to their own hardware, which apple certainly dislike), then get an Android phone comparably specced to and cheaper than the iphone 6 instead of one come upgrade time".
- robotic 13y ago
  I am always surprised when people start talking about specs for phones. This has never once been an input into my buying decision for me.
  - blueskin_ 13y ago
    It's been one of the primary ones (can run CyanogenMod, spec, has SD card and physical buttons, looks, screen size, removable battery) for me each time.
  - sp332 13y ago
    By "specs" do you mean size and camera quality etc. , or just processor speed?
- mark_integerdsv 13y ago
  >realise the software is better At the risk of noshing down some trollbait, could you perhaps qualify this statement or are you just going to go with your subjectiuve view as fact?
  - Consultant32452 13y ago
    As someone that owns both an Android and iOS phone I think Apple has nicer form factor than the various Android options but Android has superior software. Here's my quick thoughts. iOS has caught up in a lot of the features it was missing early on (multi-tasking) but it still lacks widgets. It may not be for everyone, but I use two widgets on my desktop daily and Apple's answer to it in the notification center is bleh. I originally liked Apple's Passbook but Google's Wallet and Now surpass it in features and in some ways usability. By this I mean Google automatically creates cards for my packages from UPS without any effort for me at all. It also keeps track of my boarding passes, tickets, etc with no effort. Apple's solution requires (generally) that I open an e-mail attachment or something. Last but not least are the Google Apps, most notably Maps but it does include the others. iOS is made better by Google software and most iOS users I know use one or more Google apps. In a full Google platform though the integration is superior. Let's say I'm sitting at my desktop and search for a restaurant. The next time I open Google Now it'll have a card with that restaurant and allow me to navigate there in a single touch.
    - mark_integerdsv 13y ago
      Google Now is just the coolest thing. I really hope we see more of thin kind of thin, especially in terms of integration. Noticing that Now and Glass are clearly made for one another - this gives me a lot of hope for where Glass might be in say, five years.
  - LanceH 13y ago
    The bitcoin wallet apps are better on Android for one.
  - blueskin_ 13y ago
    Well, it's open source, but past that, it allows installs from outside a store, has far greater user customisability, better notifications, a better desktop separate from the app launcher menu, and is far more hospitable to users having full access to the hardware they actually own.
frade33 13y ago
>People like the precious looks of stylings and manufacturing that we do in our product compared to the other Android offerings. Is he essentially saying, people who admire the iPhone hardware, do not really admire iOS? Or Am I missing something. Taking into account the premise of Steve, Apple should make Windows Laptops too?
- officemonkey 13y ago
  They do make Windows Laptops. All you have to do is provide a copy of Windows. That being said, few people would buy an Apple phone without getting the iOS. Samsung has pretty much captured the market for Android phones for people who admire iPhone hardware, so Woz isn't completely misguided. I just don't see the upside for Apple. Does he think Apple can gobble up the Android market with well-made, high-quality Android handsets? It's not worth using your resources to manufacture lower-margin equipment when it could be used to make/sell higher-margin equipment.
  - frade33 13y ago
    From my understanding of how Apple Inc work, they are not really focused on market share. It could be one of their goals, but not their entire focus, instead they solely focus on producing products the best human can do and produce. Much like Merce or BMW, are they focused on market share like Toyota? No.
greenwalls 13y ago
Instead of making an Android phone Apple should offer Bootcamp for iOS devices so any OS can run there. This works on Macs so why not offer it on iOS devices?
- blueskin_ 13y ago
  That only works as macs have an x86 architecture.
  - phlo 13y ago
    Most current smartphones are ARMv7, Apple's A7 stands out as a(n albeit slower) ARMv8 SoC. I'm not quite sure about the compatibility between the two, but at least iPhones 5/5C should be architecturally compatible. Performance might be questionable, as current Android phones tend to be quad-core models clocked around 2 GHz while A6/A7 feature only two cores at around 1.3-1.4 GHz.
    - sp332 13y ago
      It's not just the CPU, they would have to provide Android drivers for networking, bluetooth, cameras, etc. ARM platforms aren't standardized like PCs.
      - bentcorner 13y ago
        I feel like it's almost a quirk of history that the PC has become home to so many different operating systems. Hardware platforms that allow me to swap software on them are very few and far between. The fact that PCs were like this over 20 years ago and continue to be so to this day is amazing. It's a shame that phone hardware didn't follow the same path. Android's openness (for varying levels of "open") is great and all, but I'm more interested in hardware openness. The Nexus line seems to be the current leader in openness + consumer availability + quality, but it's a shame there aren't more.
bitwize 13y ago
Apple has been doing the right thing all along. Because the very thing that enabled Apple to rise from near bankruptcy to just about the most profitable company in the history of capitalism is providing and controlling an integrated, soup-to-nuts hardware and software ecosystem. A big part of the reason why Android still feels so janky is that it has to cater to multiple hardware vendors and other stakeholders (carriers), as well as Google's advertising business, with the end user a secondary concern. Apple's total control enables it to make the user the highest priority.
- blueskin_ 13y ago
  Stop using manufacturer-customised versions of Android then.
  - twerquie 13y ago
    But that's exactly what the article is suggesting Apple creates.
- Tarang 13y ago
  > Because the very thing that enabled Apple to rise from near bankruptcy to just about the most profitable company in the history of capitalism Adjusted for inflation I think that title still belongs to IBM through the 70s.
  - danoprey 13y ago
    Or the East India Company if you want to go even further back.
    - pm90 13y ago
      Can you please elaborate? The East India Company never recovered from its episode of near-bankruptcy
      - sp332 13y ago
forgottenpass 13y ago
Everyone's boring opinions always appear to themselves as common sense. You see this all the time in politics too, and I'm becoming more and more suspicious every time someone uses it in an argument. If you have a good case, your best foot forward shouldn't be that it's popular and makes sense to you. Show, don't tell.
Pxtl 13y ago
The company that really disappointed everyone is Sony. Sony was Apple when Apple was beige boxes, and then Sony turned into just another commodity vendor when it comes to non-playstation hardware. The new Xperia products give the hint that Sony is crawling out of that hole, but they have a long way to go.
- twistedpair 13y ago
  Too true. I remember some of the razor thin VAIO's from many years before the Air was every a prototype. And that from a company that was a leading maker of floppy disks no less.
nicholassmith 13y ago
If it wasn't for that quote from Woz, pretty much everyone would go 'well that's ridiculous'. And it is, it is ridiculous, Apple would still want a hardware premium because that's the business model, so they wouldn't be able to try and out price the other manufacturers. They'd gain nothing from it. People that want an iPhone want it for the hardware software combination.
- fossuser 13y ago
  > People that want an iPhone want it for the hardware software combination. I'm not so certain that's case. Today the iPhone is at least feature comparative to Android (turn by turn navigation, LTE, decent google integration and hangouts) - but Android still doesn't have as nice hardware as Apple. I really wanted Nokia to start making Android devices because they do make beautiful hardware, but unfortunately they went to Windows phone. I'd imagine many android users would switch to apple made hardware if it was available. Then apple would likely dominate the hardware market for both operating systems - which would be interesting.
  - nicholassmith 13y ago
    I found the HTC One to be pretty solid, not as good as Apple but very nice and very well built. If I remember rightly the stats show a lot of the Android sales are low-to-mid range hardware, so there's possibly not as much reason for companies to build really high end phones if they don't think there's a market.
    - fossuser 13y ago
      The HTC One is beautiful, but the battery is atrocious - the iPhone has an incredible battery. The Nexus 5 is also a really nice phone, but the hardware is still not as nice as the iPhone (I admit this is a bit subjective though). I think you're right that most of the android sales are low to midrange hardware, but there are no real high end options except for the HTC One and Nexus 5 which are not readily available in stores. The Moto X was solid though too - shouldn't not mention that one. I think people who use iOS probably would not jump to an Apple device running Android, but there are Android users who would jump from their samsung device to an Apple one. I don't think Apple would do this because they want control over their ecosystem and they want to force people into iTunes, Apple TV, iBooks, iMessage etc, but I don't think it's necessarily a terrible idea.

18 points by JonSkeptic 13y ago

"And Android is outpacing Apple in the cheaper markets that are gaining importance, so there’s a sort of intuitive sense in the move, if you’re willing to twist the logic into uncomfortable directions." s/Android/Windows/, move it back ten years, and then count how many PC OEMs are still in the business today. Did I miss the part where "Businessweek" became a "how to light your money on fire" journal?

blueskin_ 13y ago

All the article really needed to say was "but then Apple fans would try an Android phone, realise the software is better (and likely start experimenting with having root access to their own hardware, which apple certainly dislike), then get an Android phone comparably specced to and cheaper than the iphone 6 instead of one come upgrade time".

robotic 13y ago
I am always surprised when people start talking about specs for phones. This has never once been an input into my buying decision for me.
- blueskin_ 13y ago
  It's been one of the primary ones (can run CyanogenMod, spec, has SD card and physical buttons, looks, screen size, removable battery) for me each time.
- sp332 13y ago
  By "specs" do you mean size and camera quality etc. , or just processor speed?
mark_integerdsv 13y ago
>realise the software is better At the risk of noshing down some trollbait, could you perhaps qualify this statement or are you just going to go with your subjectiuve view as fact?
- Consultant32452 13y ago
  As someone that owns both an Android and iOS phone I think Apple has nicer form factor than the various Android options but Android has superior software. Here's my quick thoughts. iOS has caught up in a lot of the features it was missing early on (multi-tasking) but it still lacks widgets. It may not be for everyone, but I use two widgets on my desktop daily and Apple's answer to it in the notification center is bleh. I originally liked Apple's Passbook but Google's Wallet and Now surpass it in features and in some ways usability. By this I mean Google automatically creates cards for my packages from UPS without any effort for me at all. It also keeps track of my boarding passes, tickets, etc with no effort. Apple's solution requires (generally) that I open an e-mail attachment or something. Last but not least are the Google Apps, most notably Maps but it does include the others. iOS is made better by Google software and most iOS users I know use one or more Google apps. In a full Google platform though the integration is superior. Let's say I'm sitting at my desktop and search for a restaurant. The next time I open Google Now it'll have a card with that restaurant and allow me to navigate there in a single touch.
  - mark_integerdsv 13y ago
    Google Now is just the coolest thing. I really hope we see more of thin kind of thin, especially in terms of integration. Noticing that Now and Glass are clearly made for one another - this gives me a lot of hope for where Glass might be in say, five years.
- LanceH 13y ago
  The bitcoin wallet apps are better on Android for one.
- blueskin_ 13y ago
  Well, it's open source, but past that, it allows installs from outside a store, has far greater user customisability, better notifications, a better desktop separate from the app launcher menu, and is far more hospitable to users having full access to the hardware they actually own.

frade33 13y ago

>People like the precious looks of stylings and manufacturing that we do in our product compared to the other Android offerings. Is he essentially saying, people who admire the iPhone hardware, do not really admire iOS? Or Am I missing something. Taking into account the premise of Steve, Apple should make Windows Laptops too?

officemonkey 13y ago
They do make Windows Laptops. All you have to do is provide a copy of Windows. That being said, few people would buy an Apple phone without getting the iOS. Samsung has pretty much captured the market for Android phones for people who admire iPhone hardware, so Woz isn't completely misguided. I just don't see the upside for Apple. Does he think Apple can gobble up the Android market with well-made, high-quality Android handsets? It's not worth using your resources to manufacture lower-margin equipment when it could be used to make/sell higher-margin equipment.
- frade33 13y ago
  From my understanding of how Apple Inc work, they are not really focused on market share. It could be one of their goals, but not their entire focus, instead they solely focus on producing products the best human can do and produce. Much like Merce or BMW, are they focused on market share like Toyota? No.

greenwalls 13y ago

Instead of making an Android phone Apple should offer Bootcamp for iOS devices so any OS can run there. This works on Macs so why not offer it on iOS devices?

blueskin_ 13y ago
That only works as macs have an x86 architecture.
- phlo 13y ago
  Most current smartphones are ARMv7, Apple's A7 stands out as a(n albeit slower) ARMv8 SoC. I'm not quite sure about the compatibility between the two, but at least iPhones 5/5C should be architecturally compatible. Performance might be questionable, as current Android phones tend to be quad-core models clocked around 2 GHz while A6/A7 feature only two cores at around 1.3-1.4 GHz.
  - sp332 13y ago
    It's not just the CPU, they would have to provide Android drivers for networking, bluetooth, cameras, etc. ARM platforms aren't standardized like PCs.
    - bentcorner 13y ago
      I feel like it's almost a quirk of history that the PC has become home to so many different operating systems. Hardware platforms that allow me to swap software on them are very few and far between. The fact that PCs were like this over 20 years ago and continue to be so to this day is amazing. It's a shame that phone hardware didn't follow the same path. Android's openness (for varying levels of "open") is great and all, but I'm more interested in hardware openness. The Nexus line seems to be the current leader in openness + consumer availability + quality, but it's a shame there aren't more.

bitwize 13y ago

Apple has been doing the right thing all along. Because the very thing that enabled Apple to rise from near bankruptcy to just about the most profitable company in the history of capitalism is providing and controlling an integrated, soup-to-nuts hardware and software ecosystem. A big part of the reason why Android still feels so janky is that it has to cater to multiple hardware vendors and other stakeholders (carriers), as well as Google's advertising business, with the end user a secondary concern. Apple's total control enables it to make the user the highest priority.

blueskin_ 13y ago
Stop using manufacturer-customised versions of Android then.
- twerquie 13y ago
  But that's exactly what the article is suggesting Apple creates.
Tarang 13y ago
> Because the very thing that enabled Apple to rise from near bankruptcy to just about the most profitable company in the history of capitalism Adjusted for inflation I think that title still belongs to IBM through the 70s.
- danoprey 13y ago
  Or the East India Company if you want to go even further back.
  - pm90 13y ago
    Can you please elaborate? The East India Company never recovered from its episode of near-bankruptcy
    - sp332 13y ago

forgottenpass 13y ago

Everyone's boring opinions always appear to themselves as common sense. You see this all the time in politics too, and I'm becoming more and more suspicious every time someone uses it in an argument. If you have a good case, your best foot forward shouldn't be that it's popular and makes sense to you. Show, don't tell.

Pxtl 13y ago

The company that really disappointed everyone is Sony. Sony was Apple when Apple was beige boxes, and then Sony turned into just another commodity vendor when it comes to non-playstation hardware. The new Xperia products give the hint that Sony is crawling out of that hole, but they have a long way to go.

twistedpair 13y ago
Too true. I remember some of the razor thin VAIO's from many years before the Air was every a prototype. And that from a company that was a leading maker of floppy disks no less.

nicholassmith 13y ago

If it wasn't for that quote from Woz, pretty much everyone would go 'well that's ridiculous'. And it is, it is ridiculous, Apple would still want a hardware premium because that's the business model, so they wouldn't be able to try and out price the other manufacturers. They'd gain nothing from it. People that want an iPhone want it for the hardware software combination.

fossuser 13y ago
> People that want an iPhone want it for the hardware software combination. I'm not so certain that's case. Today the iPhone is at least feature comparative to Android (turn by turn navigation, LTE, decent google integration and hangouts) - but Android still doesn't have as nice hardware as Apple. I really wanted Nokia to start making Android devices because they do make beautiful hardware, but unfortunately they went to Windows phone. I'd imagine many android users would switch to apple made hardware if it was available. Then apple would likely dominate the hardware market for both operating systems - which would be interesting.
- nicholassmith 13y ago
  I found the HTC One to be pretty solid, not as good as Apple but very nice and very well built. If I remember rightly the stats show a lot of the Android sales are low-to-mid range hardware, so there's possibly not as much reason for companies to build really high end phones if they don't think there's a market.
  - fossuser 13y ago
    The HTC One is beautiful, but the battery is atrocious - the iPhone has an incredible battery. The Nexus 5 is also a really nice phone, but the hardware is still not as nice as the iPhone (I admit this is a bit subjective though). I think you're right that most of the android sales are low to midrange hardware, but there are no real high end options except for the HTC One and Nexus 5 which are not readily available in stores. The Moto X was solid though too - shouldn't not mention that one. I think people who use iOS probably would not jump to an Apple device running Android, but there are Android users who would jump from their samsung device to an Apple one. I don't think Apple would do this because they want control over their ecosystem and they want to force people into iTunes, Apple TV, iBooks, iMessage etc, but I don't think it's necessarily a terrible idea.