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This just goes to show how asymmetrical Afghanistan and Iraq are in terms of war. We just don't know what is like to be on the receiving end of war. Think abou

by carlob 13y ago

This just goes to show how asymmetrical Afghanistan and Iraq are in terms of war. We just don't know what is like to be on the receiving end of war. Think about it: an Australian soldier in Afghanistan has made a choice (maybe forced by her economic condition, sure) to risk her life in Afghanistan. Afghan civilians didn't really have that choice. The estimates for civilian deaths in Iraq are above 100k, around 20k for Afghanistan and there doesn't seem to be an end in sight for this quagmire the US has put themselves in, so I really don't know what you mean by not a particularly difficult war.

ansible 13y ago
The estimates for civilian deaths in Iraq are above 100k... That's just the best estimate for those killed in and around main areas of conflict. With all the ethnic cleansing, and general privation from the destroyed infrastructure of the Iraq nation, the total death toll is estimated to be 1 million or more. War is more horrible than most people (who haven't directly experienced it) can imagine. We the voting public should not take any decision to go to war lightly. As we have in the past.
simonh 13y ago
That's entirely true, but did that Afghan civilian not have that choice "to get embroiled in a war pushed on them by Western imperial overreach", or did they not have a choice "to be dominated by an extremist militant Jihadist movement that imposed a ruthless ideological dictatorship and pursued an aggressive terrorist agenda, which we are attempting to free ordinary Afghans from". Yes we have lost dozens of soldiers, but the US also lost thousands of civilians on 9/11. The UK lost 67 people that day. Even Australia lost 11. There are reasons we are in Aghanistan. Whether you believe those are good reasons is the issue.
vacri 13y ago
so I really don't know what you mean by not a particularly difficult war. To me it's blindingly obvious that I'm talking about the experience of the Western nations in these wars. You seem to be more choosing to be obtuse rather than not actually understanding what I'm saying: that we as citizens of western make effectively zero sacrifices in pursuing these wars.
- carlob 13y ago
  I got what you meant to say don't worry. It's only that I find it revolting that we are so sheltered from the wars we wage.

by carlob 13y ago

ansible 13y ago

The estimates for civilian deaths in Iraq are above 100k... That's just the best estimate for those killed in and around main areas of conflict. With all the ethnic cleansing, and general privation from the destroyed infrastructure of the Iraq nation, the total death toll is estimated to be 1 million or more. War is more horrible than most people (who haven't directly experienced it) can imagine. We the voting public should not take any decision to go to war lightly. As we have in the past.

simonh 13y ago

That's entirely true, but did that Afghan civilian not have that choice "to get embroiled in a war pushed on them by Western imperial overreach", or did they not have a choice "to be dominated by an extremist militant Jihadist movement that imposed a ruthless ideological dictatorship and pursued an aggressive terrorist agenda, which we are attempting to free ordinary Afghans from". Yes we have lost dozens of soldiers, but the US also lost thousands of civilians on 9/11. The UK lost 67 people that day. Even Australia lost 11. There are reasons we are in Aghanistan. Whether you believe those are good reasons is the issue.

vacri 13y ago

so I really don't know what you mean by not a particularly difficult war. To me it's blindingly obvious that I'm talking about the experience of the Western nations in these wars. You seem to be more choosing to be obtuse rather than not actually understanding what I'm saying: that we as citizens of western make effectively zero sacrifices in pursuing these wars.

carlob 13y ago
I got what you meant to say don't worry. It's only that I find it revolting that we are so sheltered from the wars we wage.