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Are you seriously saying that you can legally fire somebody for being gay in some US states? Yes. I'm surprised that you're surprised. Under Obama the tide has

Are you seriously saying that you can legally fire somebody for being gay in some US states? Yes. I'm surprised that you're surprised. Under Obama the tide has definitely turned in favor of gay rights, but gay people are still very far from being equally protected under the law nationwide. And if the next US President is a Republican, many Obama-era gay rights advances might very well be rolled back.

mercurial 13y ago
I'm European, this might explain my surprise. My understanding was that employers were usually very careful to avoid lawsuits for wrongful termination when firing people. I had not understood that in some places, discrimination against people with the wrong sexual orientation is fair game, while discrimination against people with the wrong skin colour isn't.
- jedrek 13y ago
  Not to mention that most states have moved to at will employment, which means that you can be fired for no reason.
  - beagle3 13y ago
    But "at will" means you can be fired for any reason except if the reason is "being in a protected class". Those include pregnant women, for examples. It is so ridiculous it is funny. In the US, the law guarantees NO paid maternity leave, but you can't fire a pregnant lady. So, as soon as she gives birth, you can stop paying her (but not fire her), and then, two weeks after she comes back from maternity leave, you can fire her (because she is no longer in a protected class). So, basically, all this protection amounts to is ... about two extra weeks of severance. US is pretty sad when it comes to labour law and employee rights - and most people living in the US are somehow under the illusion that it is better for them. Does anyone know if sexual preference or sexual orientation is a recognized protected class?
    - epmatsw 13y ago
      Not federally. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class
    - sailfast 13y ago
      It is true that the US does not guarantee maternity / paternity leave, however many companies do have it, and some are very generous. It's a great incentive to get good people on board. While I agree that a minimum is a good idea (though not sure how it would be legislated in practice) I also appreciate that the lack of labor regulation in the US results in a labor force and companies that are more responsive to change than in Europe and other places that are heavily regulated. As for protected classes, it seems that sexual preference is kind of covered under Title VII, but it's flimsy (this is at the Federal level): http://www.eeoc.gov/federal/otherprotections.cfm http://www.eeoc.gov/federal/otherprotections.cfm
      - aestra 13y ago
        >many companies do have it The people who REALLY need it don't get it though, those working low income jobs who can't afford to save up for maternity leave.
      - auctiontheory 13y ago
        AFAIK only a small number of "elite" employers offer generous maternity leave, and it's nothing approaching, say, Scandinavian standards.
      - beagle3 13y ago
        In european countries you get between 3 and 12 months of paid maternity/paternity leave by law (in some countries, maternity only, in others, 12 months divide between parents). In some countries you can extend this by 3-6 month of unpaid leave while still protected against termination. > I also appreciate that the lack of labor regulation in the US results in a labor force and companies that are more responsive to change than in Europe and other places that are heavily regulated. companies that are more "responsive to change"? What does this mean? Yes, they respond more easily to quarterly results by firing, but I don't know of anyone outside of Wall Street that considers this a good thing. The US labour situation is all fcked up, sorry - up until last year, health insurance was tied to employers (meaning people kept working in places they hated, or did not start a new venture, for health coverage). Now, it's just ultra expensive and tied to a location. (Moved? unlikely you can keep your coverage) Some places in Europe are fcked up in the other extreme - e.g. I've heard from people in Austria and in Denmark that they won't hire employees because they won't be able to fire them without a year's notice. But the e.g. UK, Northern Ireland, Sweden and Germany are doing fine on the both the health care and labour law fronts.

mercurial 13y ago

I'm European, this might explain my surprise. My understanding was that employers were usually very careful to avoid lawsuits for wrongful termination when firing people. I had not understood that in some places, discrimination against people with the wrong sexual orientation is fair game, while discrimination against people with the wrong skin colour isn't.

jedrek 13y ago
Not to mention that most states have moved to at will employment, which means that you can be fired for no reason.
- beagle3 13y ago
  But "at will" means you can be fired for any reason except if the reason is "being in a protected class". Those include pregnant women, for examples. It is so ridiculous it is funny. In the US, the law guarantees NO paid maternity leave, but you can't fire a pregnant lady. So, as soon as she gives birth, you can stop paying her (but not fire her), and then, two weeks after she comes back from maternity leave, you can fire her (because she is no longer in a protected class). So, basically, all this protection amounts to is ... about two extra weeks of severance. US is pretty sad when it comes to labour law and employee rights - and most people living in the US are somehow under the illusion that it is better for them. Does anyone know if sexual preference or sexual orientation is a recognized protected class?
  - epmatsw 13y ago
    Not federally. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class
  - sailfast 13y ago
    It is true that the US does not guarantee maternity / paternity leave, however many companies do have it, and some are very generous. It's a great incentive to get good people on board. While I agree that a minimum is a good idea (though not sure how it would be legislated in practice) I also appreciate that the lack of labor regulation in the US results in a labor force and companies that are more responsive to change than in Europe and other places that are heavily regulated. As for protected classes, it seems that sexual preference is kind of covered under Title VII, but it's flimsy (this is at the Federal level): http://www.eeoc.gov/federal/otherprotections.cfm http://www.eeoc.gov/federal/otherprotections.cfm
    - aestra 13y ago
      >many companies do have it The people who REALLY need it don't get it though, those working low income jobs who can't afford to save up for maternity leave.
    - auctiontheory 13y ago
      AFAIK only a small number of "elite" employers offer generous maternity leave, and it's nothing approaching, say, Scandinavian standards.
    - beagle3 13y ago
      In european countries you get between 3 and 12 months of paid maternity/paternity leave by law (in some countries, maternity only, in others, 12 months divide between parents). In some countries you can extend this by 3-6 month of unpaid leave while still protected against termination. > I also appreciate that the lack of labor regulation in the US results in a labor force and companies that are more responsive to change than in Europe and other places that are heavily regulated. companies that are more "responsive to change"? What does this mean? Yes, they respond more easily to quarterly results by firing, but I don't know of anyone outside of Wall Street that considers this a good thing. The US labour situation is all fcked up, sorry - up until last year, health insurance was tied to employers (meaning people kept working in places they hated, or did not start a new venture, for health coverage). Now, it's just ultra expensive and tied to a location. (Moved? unlikely you can keep your coverage) Some places in Europe are fcked up in the other extreme - e.g. I've heard from people in Austria and in Denmark that they won't hire employees because they won't be able to fire them without a year's notice. But the e.g. UK, Northern Ireland, Sweden and Germany are doing fine on the both the health care and labour law fronts.