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I want to hear what HN thinks the minimum software developer salary should be. A college graduate with no work experience from an unremarkable school is a decen

I want to hear what HN thinks the minimum software developer salary should be. A college graduate with no work experience from an unremarkable school is a decent proxy for that, because they'll likely be in the bottom percentiles in terms of both raw skill and trenches experience. If a fresh grad is making $80k, then a junior developer (say 2-3 years experience) will probably be making $160k (x2), a senior developer might pull $400k (x5) or more, and beyond that you start to get into the world-famous engineers who receive whatever they ask for. According to Google's financials at http://investor.google.com/financial/tables.html http://investor.google.com/financial/tables.html, they have approximately $220k of unallocated profit per employee. Even if they were to take all of that and convert it into salary, it would likely only bump the fresh grad's compensation to around $100k because the junior and senior developers will demand percentage-equivalent increases in their own pay. > Assuming that there should be a nearly fixed salary > number based on years of experience is as ridiculous > as assuming that all NBA players should make some flat > rate based on years in the league or whatever else. Years of experience is useful as a rough approximation of value, because someone who is not constantly improving their skillset is unlikely to be promoted and will eventually leave their position for greener pastures.

georgemcbay 13y ago
"I want to hear what HN thinks the minimum software developer salary should be." I doubt you'll get that from anyone, too many variables to set a minimum, IMO. "If a fresh grad is making $80k, then a junior developer (say 2-3 years experience) will probably be making $160k (x2), a senior developer might pull $400k (x5) or more, and beyond that you start to get into the world-famous engineers who receive whatever they ask for." It doesn't really work like that. I mean, sure there are articles about how Google pays $3 million or whatever to keep a top developer, but if you read past the headline you see it isn't salary, mostly one-time RSUs or such and the person is actually more of a project manager or even executive rather than a developer. The industry's issues with compensation extend up into the higher end too where there's somewhat of a loose glass ceiling at around $150k-175k or so (which can vary quite a bit based on region/cost of living, but the general idea of a glass cap is pretty universal) beyond which it is very difficult to go without being a Linus-level name brand, or going into management or founding your own company and hitting the startup lottery. Of course there are exceptions to this that prove the rule, like people doing HFT/financial software can make quite a bit more because they are compensated like financial sector workers instead of like software industry workers. "Years of experience is useful as a rough approximation of value, because someone who is not constantly improving their skillset is unlikely to be promoted and will eventually leave their position for greener pastures." As someone who is 40 and still an active non-managerial software developer, I should find this somewhat flattering, but I've seen plenty of evidence that suggests you are simply incredibly optimistic about the efficiency of the industry at weeding out those who aren't productive or talented.
thedufer 13y ago
In what world are 2-3 years of experience going to double your salary? And $400k is not what your average senior dev is making. I don't know where your 2x/5x numbers came from, but I've never seen anything close to that.
- jmillikin 13y ago
  From your profile I see you live in New York. Silicon Valley is a different world, where the total compensation (salary+stock+bonus) for a senior developer can exceed a million per year: http://www.itworld.com/cloud-computing/399839/man-or-myth-3-million-google-engineer http://www.itworld.com/cloud-computing/399839/man-or-myth-3-...
  - thedufer 13y ago
    I don't think NYC is that different. Starting salaries here are pretty similar ($100k+ for people fresh out of college is becoming fairly normal outside of startups). Maybe the spread is bigger in Silicon Valley? If so, I wonder why. Doubling your salary based on 2-3 years of experience doesn't happen here, and 5x for senior engineers would require a very narrow definition of senior.

georgemcbay 13y ago

"I want to hear what HN thinks the minimum software developer salary should be." I doubt you'll get that from anyone, too many variables to set a minimum, IMO. "If a fresh grad is making $80k, then a junior developer (say 2-3 years experience) will probably be making $160k (x2), a senior developer might pull $400k (x5) or more, and beyond that you start to get into the world-famous engineers who receive whatever they ask for." It doesn't really work like that. I mean, sure there are articles about how Google pays $3 million or whatever to keep a top developer, but if you read past the headline you see it isn't salary, mostly one-time RSUs or such and the person is actually more of a project manager or even executive rather than a developer. The industry's issues with compensation extend up into the higher end too where there's somewhat of a loose glass ceiling at around $150k-175k or so (which can vary quite a bit based on region/cost of living, but the general idea of a glass cap is pretty universal) beyond which it is very difficult to go without being a Linus-level name brand, or going into management or founding your own company and hitting the startup lottery. Of course there are exceptions to this that prove the rule, like people doing HFT/financial software can make quite a bit more because they are compensated like financial sector workers instead of like software industry workers. "Years of experience is useful as a rough approximation of value, because someone who is not constantly improving their skillset is unlikely to be promoted and will eventually leave their position for greener pastures." As someone who is 40 and still an active non-managerial software developer, I should find this somewhat flattering, but I've seen plenty of evidence that suggests you are simply incredibly optimistic about the efficiency of the industry at weeding out those who aren't productive or talented.

thedufer 13y ago

In what world are 2-3 years of experience going to double your salary? And $400k is not what your average senior dev is making. I don't know where your 2x/5x numbers came from, but I've never seen anything close to that.

jmillikin 13y ago
From your profile I see you live in New York. Silicon Valley is a different world, where the total compensation (salary+stock+bonus) for a senior developer can exceed a million per year: http://www.itworld.com/cloud-computing/399839/man-or-myth-3-million-google-engineer http://www.itworld.com/cloud-computing/399839/man-or-myth-3-...
- thedufer 13y ago
  I don't think NYC is that different. Starting salaries here are pretty similar ($100k+ for people fresh out of college is becoming fairly normal outside of startups). Maybe the spread is bigger in Silicon Valley? If so, I wonder why. Doubling your salary based on 2-3 years of experience doesn't happen here, and 5x for senior engineers would require a very narrow definition of senior.