6 ms·

When were these? I can't think of a time like that in the history of the United States, sorting by decade or so...

by jwise0 13y ago

dubfan 13y ago
For starters, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Massacre
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
busterarm 13y ago
I hope i'm understanding you correctly in that you think there's never been "good times" with some degree of racial/gender/religious/political equality. Largely I would agree with you, but I don't think that's the general sentiment among Americans thinking of their history, especially with respect to the last quarter of the 1900s. I'm also not trying to claim them all at once, but individually and in very general terms. If you're arguing the opposite though, I don't know where we could begin to discuss the chasm between our understandings.
- dalke 13y ago
  > I don't think that's the general sentiment among Americans thinking of their history, especially with respect to the last quarter of the 1900s "General" implies majority, yes? In which case isn't your statement almost tautologically true? At least if most Americans are part of the majority? Instead, shouldn't we ask instead how those of the historically "wrong color", "wrong gender", "wrong religion", and "wrong politics" perceive things? Certainly in 2006, "Atheists, who account for about 3 percent of the U.S. population, offer a glaring exception to the rule of increasing social tolerance over the last 30 years" http://www1.umn.edu/news/news-releases/2006/UR_RELEASE_MIG_2816.html http://www1.umn.edu/news/news-releases/2006/UR_RELEASE_MIG_2... As it says, there has been a trend of "increasing social tolerance" over the last part of the 20th century, but that's not the same as couldn't.
  - judk 13y ago
    Fun fact: Most people are in some minority group; there are many groups.
    - shangxiao 13y ago
      I would even argue that all people belong to some form of minority group ;)
    - dalke 13y ago
      Fun fact: there are only four minority groups in this discussion, those being "wrong color", "wrong gender", "wrong religion", and "wrong politics". Fun fact: discrimination in the workplace is generally legal. The law lists only a few exceptions. But when someone talks about anti-discrimination policies, they mean those few exceptions and not the entire universe of all possible ways to discriminate. Fun fact: billionaires in the US are indeed a minority, but not considered a traditionally oppressed minority which, you know, is the point of this conversation. Fun fact: there's plenty of evidence to show that being female, being black, being Muslim, and being a communist in the US is more likely to have a negative effect, compared to someone male, white, Lutheran, and Democrat. Fun facts: California still has a law preventing teachers from being in the Communist party: http://www.dailybulletin.com/social-affairs/20130113/california-law-keeps-communist-party-members-from-teaching http://www.dailybulletin.com/social-affairs/20130113/califor... , and in 2001, Michael Italie was fired from Goodwill for being a member of the Socialist Worker Party. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/chatterbox/2002/07/can_your_boss_fire_you_for_your_political_beliefs.html http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/chatterbox/2... or http://www.themilitant.com/2001/6543/654302.html http://www.themilitant.com/2001/6543/654302.html .
      - busterarm 13y ago
        > there's plenty of evidence to show that being female, being black, being Muslim, and being a communist in the US is more likely to have a negative effect, compared to someone male, white, Lutheran, and Democrat. I don't think my point was entirely made if you're saying this. While I wholeheartedly agree with you, the premise was that it's a whole lot better to be female/black/communist/non-Protestant in 1980 than it was to be in 1940. The point that I was making was that it was a whole lot better to be Muslim in 1980 than it is to be in 2014 and that if anything, rather than this being some period we'll reflect on sadly like Germany, we're simply returning to the mean. Tangentially, things are going to get worse for everyone disenfranchised, not just Muslims and those who look like them.

When were these? I can't think of a time like that in the history of the United States, sorting by decade or so...

by jwise0 13y ago

When were these? I can't think of a time like that in the history of the United States, sorting by decade or so...

dubfan 13y ago

For starters, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Massacre

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

busterarm 13y ago

I hope i'm understanding you correctly in that you think there's never been "good times" with some degree of racial/gender/religious/political equality. Largely I would agree with you, but I don't think that's the general sentiment among Americans thinking of their history, especially with respect to the last quarter of the 1900s. I'm also not trying to claim them all at once, but individually and in very general terms. If you're arguing the opposite though, I don't know where we could begin to discuss the chasm between our understandings.

dalke 13y ago
> I don't think that's the general sentiment among Americans thinking of their history, especially with respect to the last quarter of the 1900s "General" implies majority, yes? In which case isn't your statement almost tautologically true? At least if most Americans are part of the majority? Instead, shouldn't we ask instead how those of the historically "wrong color", "wrong gender", "wrong religion", and "wrong politics" perceive things? Certainly in 2006, "Atheists, who account for about 3 percent of the U.S. population, offer a glaring exception to the rule of increasing social tolerance over the last 30 years" http://www1.umn.edu/news/news-releases/2006/UR_RELEASE_MIG_2816.html http://www1.umn.edu/news/news-releases/2006/UR_RELEASE_MIG_2... As it says, there has been a trend of "increasing social tolerance" over the last part of the 20th century, but that's not the same as couldn't.
- judk 13y ago
  Fun fact: Most people are in some minority group; there are many groups.
  - shangxiao 13y ago
    I would even argue that all people belong to some form of minority group ;)
  - dalke 13y ago
    Fun fact: there are only four minority groups in this discussion, those being "wrong color", "wrong gender", "wrong religion", and "wrong politics". Fun fact: discrimination in the workplace is generally legal. The law lists only a few exceptions. But when someone talks about anti-discrimination policies, they mean those few exceptions and not the entire universe of all possible ways to discriminate. Fun fact: billionaires in the US are indeed a minority, but not considered a traditionally oppressed minority which, you know, is the point of this conversation. Fun fact: there's plenty of evidence to show that being female, being black, being Muslim, and being a communist in the US is more likely to have a negative effect, compared to someone male, white, Lutheran, and Democrat. Fun facts: California still has a law preventing teachers from being in the Communist party: http://www.dailybulletin.com/social-affairs/20130113/california-law-keeps-communist-party-members-from-teaching http://www.dailybulletin.com/social-affairs/20130113/califor... , and in 2001, Michael Italie was fired from Goodwill for being a member of the Socialist Worker Party. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/chatterbox/2002/07/can_your_boss_fire_you_for_your_political_beliefs.html http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/chatterbox/2... or http://www.themilitant.com/2001/6543/654302.html http://www.themilitant.com/2001/6543/654302.html .
    - busterarm 13y ago
      > there's plenty of evidence to show that being female, being black, being Muslim, and being a communist in the US is more likely to have a negative effect, compared to someone male, white, Lutheran, and Democrat. I don't think my point was entirely made if you're saying this. While I wholeheartedly agree with you, the premise was that it's a whole lot better to be female/black/communist/non-Protestant in 1980 than it was to be in 1940. The point that I was making was that it was a whole lot better to be Muslim in 1980 than it is to be in 2014 and that if anything, rather than this being some period we'll reflect on sadly like Germany, we're simply returning to the mean. Tangentially, things are going to get worse for everyone disenfranchised, not just Muslims and those who look like them.