7 ms·

Recruiting: There is no such thing as a developer shortage

69 points by wolfgke 13y ago

deleted 13y ago
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deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
invalidOrTaken 13y ago
Think what you will about his conclusions for action, but I don't think anyone has laid out the shape of the problems with "developer shortage" better than michaelochurch: http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2013/05/17/corporate-work-is-the-most-elaborate-victim-shaming-structure-ever-devised/ http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2013/05/17/corporate-wor...
fecak 13y ago
This article does a good job to demonstrate ways to attract and retain talent. The only thing I'd disagree with is that they won't come to you. If you do the other things listed, and become known as a shop that does things right and treats employees well, they will come to you. Reputation of several companies makes their recruiting efforts much easier. The article doesn't really address the alleged developer shortage referenced in the title. Even if every company did these things, and did them well, would they still all be able to meet their hiring needs?
- devilshaircut 13y ago
  I agree with you and I would add one other small thing on the "they are not going to come to you" point. Working from the assumption that this is a true proposition, it still wouldn't make recruiting a problem which is easily unpackable. Many HR and recruiting departments very actively look for candidates. The latter part of the article discusses how to set apart your company; I just wanted to make the distinction that although they may not "come to you", it is still the case that many employers are aware of this already and do actively recruit.
brianfitz 13y ago
A good article, but poorly titled. TL;DR -- there is a developer shortage, but you can overcome it by being smarter than your competitors.
zedpm 13y ago
>The developers you want to hire are never applying to job listings. The are either gainfully employed, or directly contacting you because they have found your company and love what you do. This field is so saturated right now that the good developers can pick and choose the companies they want to work for. There is certainly some truth here. I don't consider myself a particularly great developer, but I didn't apply for either my current job or for the previous one; I was contacted by management or the founder. At my previous job, we filled multiple development positions by contacting people we knew and convinced them to join us.
- fecak 13y ago
  Referrals and working for past co-workers seem to account for a good amount of hires at most of the small companies I've represented (independent recruiter), particularly over the past five years. It's not unusual to see teams reform again and again at new firms. But when a company grows significantly or needs to grow fast, it's difficult for that hiring model to scale.
- null_ptr 13y ago
  Unfortunate wisdom like "only the already-employed are worthy of employment" really hurts a lot of otherwise intelligent, hard working people. Isn't it a form of discrimination (and kicking someone when they're down)?
fiatmoney 13y ago
There is no such thing as a developer shortage; there is a shortage of wildly, identifiably competent developers willing to work for the salaries you're offering. Offer more money (and especially, advertise it), and perhaps offer remote work to expand your search pool if you'd rather pay "Cincinnati well-off" than "Mountain View well-off" salary, find yourself with no shortage. The sense of entitlement is astounding. Or, as this article states, you can offer interesting work in a good environment - that's worth something (have you tried offering a 4-day week?), but really, your core problem is probably building something very boring with very high maintainability and reliability. So just offer more money, and advertise as such. It's really really simple.
- arbuge 13y ago
  Not quite. You have to offer a good work environment as the article suggests. I suppose you could theoretically pay large salaries that make up for really bad ones, but unless you're a running high volume 95% margin type of business, you probably won't find them affordable...
  - fiatmoney 13y ago
    "Good work environment" as in, "don't be an asshole if they're getting their job done". The things actually mentioned in the article as recruiting tools (see below) absolutely have a pretty reasonable compensating differential in the form of cold, hard cash. And my, who are the (even non-technical) executives who have this much time to devote to seducing their developers with loving care? Just offer them money; you have a business to run. To quote: "Moreso, find out what is important to them besides coding and perks. Do they have a family? Find a way for them to bring their kids in a few times a week, or have a family meal on Fridays. Do they like to travel? Invent a travel bonus, where they get to go where they want one week every three months. Do they want to speak at conferences? Become their agent, allow them time to commit to open source."
    - greenyoda 13y ago
      "The things actually mentioned in the article as recruiting tools (see below) absolutely have a pretty reasonable compensating differential in the form of cold, hard cash." Absolutely. "Walk in the park, go to a movie, meet their spouse"? Don't waste my time with that, I really don't care about socializing with my future boss. Offer me 50% more money than I'm making now and you'll have my attention.
GrahamsNumber 13y ago
> If you gave me a pile of resumes, and told me I had to hire one of the developers in the pile, the first thing I would do is schedule a party and invite all the developers on that list. Because programmers are very social creatures that would jump on the opportunity to go to a party thrown by some random recruiter. Especially the ones that already work 8-10 hours a day. But you're not looking for programmers, you're looking for brogrammers, aren't you? Carry on then.
cobralibre 13y ago
> If you gave me a pile of resumes, and told me I had to hire one of the developers in the pile, the first thing I would do is schedule a party and invite all the developers on that list. This is what you need to do. ... At Levo League we had (and we still have) the developer potluck, which was a monthly event where we all drank wine, ate each other’s food, and discussed thigns [sic] that were important to us. Find a way to promote developer fellowship and then they will come. A lot of good developers (or testers or whatever) will see no appeal in that sort of thing, and it doesn't mean that they're bad developers or unpleasant to work with. Maybe they're busy. Maybe parties make them uncomfortable. Maybe they're perfectly sociable but prefer to spend their free time with people of more diverse backgrounds and interests than other developers.
- touristtam 13y ago
  > Maybe they're perfectly sociable but prefer to spend their free time with people of more diverse backgrounds and interests than other developers. Specially when you have a good amount of subculture involving "star" in the name ..... Nothing against those ones, but the amount of time a reference is totally lost on me is staggering.
theg2 13y ago
As someone in the younger age bracket (mid-late twenties), I think the "don't post ad's they'll come to you" idea is kind of an age-ist statement. I found my current job through a job posting, I'm passionate about my job, and work very hard to get the organization to meet it's goals. Sometimes when people are moving to new cities they will only find those jobs through recruiters or job postings.
- fecak 13y ago
  This article doesn't reflect the market for entry-level or even junior/mid-level talent. Once someone develops a reputation and a network, applying for jobs becomes much less common.
  - theg2 13y ago
    While I agree, it doesn't address the issue where people decide to move. Even at my age I know networking is the best way to find the jobs you often want but excluding people because they aren't in your network is kind of limiting your options.
jmillikin 13y ago
Having a developer shortage doesn't only mean that it's difficult to hire developers. It means that to hire developers, you must hire them away from their current employer. There is no pool of unemployed software developers to hire out of, so if you're launching a startup or expanding your team then your only option is to entice a developer away from their existing job. Some observers are confused by the very large population of non-developers who apply for development jobs. These people do not know how to write software[1], and so should not be counted as developers for the purposes of this discussion any more than someone who can't use a multimeter would be called an electrician. One of the earliest blog posts I remember about this phenomena is from Joel Spolsky circa 2005[2], in which he observes that the top 0.5% of applicants is likely to include 99% of the applicants who are developers. [1] FizzBuzz is still the gold standard "can write software" test. [2] http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2005/01/27.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2005/01/27.html
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
pastProlog 13y ago
Companies throw up barriers in front of themselves, set up a high jump bar, and then wonder why people aren't running to them, to what is often a not-that-great opportunity. To me, the whole interview process is about companies achieving social dominance over you. No matter how desperate they are, they still need you to be crawling to them, not vice versa. Sometimes an outside headhunter calls me and asks if I want to talk to a company. I call and talk to someone at the company, and before I've even met anyone they want three references from me, preferably (or absolutely) former bosses. So before I even meet anyone, I'm supposed to call three former bosses and ask them all for a favor. It might happen a little farther down the process, but still. What it really means for me is I don't do "one off" interviews. Every few years or so I decide to get a new job, I fix my resume etc., ask my former bosses if they'd give me a recommendation, and then start interviewing at lots of companies. What this means is I'm only available for several weeks every few years. It wouldn't be a big thing for me to check out some new company half-way into my employment somewhere, but I'm not going to bother my old bosses every few months for one-off interviews. And why bother going and stammering in front of some officious HR person or manager about how you don't feel comfortable giving out recommendations so early on. Their expectations already turn the interview sour, "what am I hiding"? Then interviewers also expect you to work on their schedule. I have a job, things aren't going well there, yet they expect me to come in the middle of a work day and spend some hours there. I might even take the day off and the interviewer might call and cancel. Then should I wear a suit (I'm not in the Bay Area)? I used to drop my suit off in a friend's office, go to work, go to my friend's office, get in the suit, interview, go back to my friend's office, change, go back to work, then go to my friend's office, get the suit and go home. Or the interviewer asks very officiously why I want to work at the company. The answer I usually want to give is that I don't necessarily want to, someone called and asked if I was interested so I'm checking it out. But if an outside headhunter asked me to, it sounds kind of hollow. Blog posts with tips on interviewing say I should have a set BS answer for this but why should I? I want to work there for a fucking paycheck, why do you think I want to work there? Then other bullshit. Obviously I wouldn't badmouth people at my current or former employers. But if they ask me about the process at my current job and I'm honest about how fucked up it is it becomes my fault. Let's say I said we have no revision control, no staging servers, everything goes straight into production, no code reviews, no integration tests etc. Or maybe not that bad, but whatever. Or the company won't spend money to hire the amount of personnel they need, the machines they need, the software they need, whatever. Then they say why not? I say I've asked management and management said no. It becomes my fault when I'm honest and say I couldn't shake the pennies from management to set up a proper system. Even if I'm just a lowly developer and not even a team lead or something. Then there's the requirements. BSCS from a good school required. A few classes short and lots of experience? Tough luck. Or super-specific requirements for a number of technologies, all at a high level and for many years. Often for a crappy company, a crappy position that doesn't need anywhere near that kind of experience. Sometimes there will be a posting on some tech forum where people are laughing about a Craigslist posting asking for "9 years of experience with iPhone apps". It kind of drives home the point. Nowadays I usually don't even have the experience problem, but it's ridiculous when a requirement is for their version control system or something. I mean, how long would it really take me to learn perforce if I know subversion, git etc., as well as all the other job listing requirements? Companies make the interview process unpleasant, throw up all kinds of barriers and then wonder why they can't find good candidates. They also wonder why person to person recruiting is so effective, people bringing in people they know. The reason is because the inside person usually tells me "the job is yours if you want it". Most of my jobs have been gotten this way, I've only worked at two companies where I went in cold via a headhunter. It's just too unpleasant.
IAmARealDev 13y ago
> Here is something that boggles my mind, I don’t know how it’s possible that so many people with web startups have no idea how the internet works? If I were to open a shoe factory, I would learn all about making shoes. I would make a few shoes of my own. I would make sure that I knew everything that goes into making a shoe. Especially if I need to hire shoemakers, how else would I know if they are any good? > Developers can smell a non-technical founder from miles away. It tells them that you have zero respect for what they do, and you think they are just tools. The Twitter book by Nick Bilton mentioned no developers. Somehow that company was built with no developers. Your developers don’t want that to happen to them, and if you don’t care enough about what your company produces to learn how it works that’s the message you’re sending. Funny. The most attractive and profitable opportunities I have ever been presented with involved non-technical individuals with domain expertise and strong relationships in their market. They didn't unnecessarily pretend that they were something they weren't (read: a techie), and they didn't act like I was a god just because I knew how to code. They had spotted an interesting, potentially lucrative opportunity that required a website/web application and they were looking for a qualified partner who could help them exploit it. What boggles my mind is the number of "startups", most of them consumer focused, with: 1. A basic CRUD app. 2. A track record of "pre-traction" (read: modest usage/traffic at best). 3. Too many developers on staff using way too many [programming languages/frameworks/technologies]. You know, because it's cool to overengineer and prematurely optimize real-time distributed architectures, and stuff. 4. Compensation packages and office space that look great assuming you don't perform the burn rate math, which doesn't really matter. Unless you want to know how long your salary will last and your key to the office will work. And who wants to know that? 5. The mistaken belief that their employees don't have a social life of their own. You know, because everyone knows the best developers don't have friends. 6. The delusion that their use of AWS makes them a "technology company." You know, because that's more fashionable than calling your web-based staffing agency for animal trainers a staffing agency. The OP is right. There is no shortage of developers. But she's wrong about why so many companies can't seem to recruit them. These companies are not looking for developers. They're looking for developers who have more experience and skill than their "businesses" require and who also happen to be suckers. And there just aren't that many of these people out there.
- 13y ago
alien3d 13y ago
Yes ,there is a shortage. It depend based on what language and framework. Nowdays php or java or javascript got lot of framework.For a junior developer to master each of it,quite some time.
calroc 13y ago
"KNOW HOW THE DOUGHNUTS ARE MADE" In my recent experience working for startups in the SF Bay Area I saw this pattern repeatedly, and it shocked me. Otherwise intelligent and competent people are, in effect, setting their money on fire and wasting lots of time and energy playing at having a real company. For some reason people think they can start and run a "web startup" without the most basic understanding of what they're attempting to do (technically.) At one point I said to a developer co-worker, "These folks have only ever seen the Internet from the outside." He agreed. It seems to me that part of the issue stems from the invisible nature of the machinery we build. If it were cars, or houses, I don't think folks would be quite so ready to blindly charge into business. But part of it is just weird. I'm actually looking for work right now but, because I no longer wish to work as a carpenter on the Winchester Mystery House (look it up) I'm having a hard time finding a job I can feel good about. More pay doesn't tempt me, nor the prospect of warm fuzzy social interaction with co-workers. I want to work with people who know what they're doing.
- mgkimsal 13y ago
  "setting their money on fire" Usually they're setting someone else's money on fire...
  - calroc 13y ago
    Well, waste is waste. Burning VC money is practically criminal when you think of the "opportunity cost" of what might have been achieved with it. The saddest was overhearing a (retired) doctor I worked for attempting to mortgage his house.
adamconroy 13y ago
That is a very strange post. Is the article actually "There is no such thing as a developer shortage in the Bay area startup space"? Because the rest of the world doesn't work like that, where the rest of the world equals London, New York and Australia. In those places perfectly good developers are found by job ads, word of mouth, former colleagues, recruiters and nepotism. Throw a fucking party, what a tedious idea.
bobfirestone 13y ago
Having problems hiring a senior level developer? Increase what you are offering by $50k. In the current market a competent developer who want a job, has a job. If you want to be taken seriously start with a serious number.
crazygringo 13y ago
Let me get this straight. There is no developer shortage... ...but "the developers you want to hire are never applying to job listings", "good developers can pick and choose the companies they want to work for", and then the author starts suggesting that you need creative things like parties and potlucks just to find and attract developers? Um... sorry, but that's a shortage. If there weren't a shortage, then the developers you want to hire would be applying to your job listings, and you wouldn't have to be writing this blog post about all these special things you have to do to find developers.
- randomdata 13y ago
  A shortage isn't characterized by your inability to acquire something you want. There is a price component. If throwing parties and potlucks is working, then it is clear that the price equilibrium has not been reached, and therefore anyone offering less are simply not in the market.
softbuilder 13y ago
Posts like this have an almost PUA quality to them. Weird. Developers are people. To hire them you have to establish a relationship with them. If you try to shortcut that, you're gonna have a bad time. It's a long-term game. Yes, you can get some attention with parties and other stunts. That is no guarantee of quality or retention and it isn't sustainable. pastProlog nails it elsewhere on this page.

69 points by wolfgke 13y ago

deleted 13y ago

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deleted 13y ago

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invalidOrTaken 13y ago

Think what you will about his conclusions for action, but I don't think anyone has laid out the shape of the problems with "developer shortage" better than michaelochurch: http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2013/05/17/corporate-work-is-the-most-elaborate-victim-shaming-structure-ever-devised/ http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2013/05/17/corporate-wor...

fecak 13y ago

This article does a good job to demonstrate ways to attract and retain talent. The only thing I'd disagree with is that they won't come to you. If you do the other things listed, and become known as a shop that does things right and treats employees well, they will come to you. Reputation of several companies makes their recruiting efforts much easier. The article doesn't really address the alleged developer shortage referenced in the title. Even if every company did these things, and did them well, would they still all be able to meet their hiring needs?

devilshaircut 13y ago
I agree with you and I would add one other small thing on the "they are not going to come to you" point. Working from the assumption that this is a true proposition, it still wouldn't make recruiting a problem which is easily unpackable. Many HR and recruiting departments very actively look for candidates. The latter part of the article discusses how to set apart your company; I just wanted to make the distinction that although they may not "come to you", it is still the case that many employers are aware of this already and do actively recruit.

brianfitz 13y ago

A good article, but poorly titled. TL;DR -- there is a developer shortage, but you can overcome it by being smarter than your competitors.

zedpm 13y ago

>The developers you want to hire are never applying to job listings. The are either gainfully employed, or directly contacting you because they have found your company and love what you do. This field is so saturated right now that the good developers can pick and choose the companies they want to work for. There is certainly some truth here. I don't consider myself a particularly great developer, but I didn't apply for either my current job or for the previous one; I was contacted by management or the founder. At my previous job, we filled multiple development positions by contacting people we knew and convinced them to join us.

fecak 13y ago
Referrals and working for past co-workers seem to account for a good amount of hires at most of the small companies I've represented (independent recruiter), particularly over the past five years. It's not unusual to see teams reform again and again at new firms. But when a company grows significantly or needs to grow fast, it's difficult for that hiring model to scale.
null_ptr 13y ago
Unfortunate wisdom like "only the already-employed are worthy of employment" really hurts a lot of otherwise intelligent, hard working people. Isn't it a form of discrimination (and kicking someone when they're down)?

fiatmoney 13y ago

There is no such thing as a developer shortage; there is a shortage of wildly, identifiably competent developers willing to work for the salaries you're offering. Offer more money (and especially, advertise it), and perhaps offer remote work to expand your search pool if you'd rather pay "Cincinnati well-off" than "Mountain View well-off" salary, find yourself with no shortage. The sense of entitlement is astounding. Or, as this article states, you can offer interesting work in a good environment - that's worth something (have you tried offering a 4-day week?), but really, your core problem is probably building something very boring with very high maintainability and reliability. So just offer more money, and advertise as such. It's really really simple.

arbuge 13y ago
Not quite. You have to offer a good work environment as the article suggests. I suppose you could theoretically pay large salaries that make up for really bad ones, but unless you're a running high volume 95% margin type of business, you probably won't find them affordable...
- fiatmoney 13y ago
  "Good work environment" as in, "don't be an asshole if they're getting their job done". The things actually mentioned in the article as recruiting tools (see below) absolutely have a pretty reasonable compensating differential in the form of cold, hard cash. And my, who are the (even non-technical) executives who have this much time to devote to seducing their developers with loving care? Just offer them money; you have a business to run. To quote: "Moreso, find out what is important to them besides coding and perks. Do they have a family? Find a way for them to bring their kids in a few times a week, or have a family meal on Fridays. Do they like to travel? Invent a travel bonus, where they get to go where they want one week every three months. Do they want to speak at conferences? Become their agent, allow them time to commit to open source."
  - greenyoda 13y ago
    "The things actually mentioned in the article as recruiting tools (see below) absolutely have a pretty reasonable compensating differential in the form of cold, hard cash." Absolutely. "Walk in the park, go to a movie, meet their spouse"? Don't waste my time with that, I really don't care about socializing with my future boss. Offer me 50% more money than I'm making now and you'll have my attention.

GrahamsNumber 13y ago

> If you gave me a pile of resumes, and told me I had to hire one of the developers in the pile, the first thing I would do is schedule a party and invite all the developers on that list. Because programmers are very social creatures that would jump on the opportunity to go to a party thrown by some random recruiter. Especially the ones that already work 8-10 hours a day. But you're not looking for programmers, you're looking for brogrammers, aren't you? Carry on then.

cobralibre 13y ago

> If you gave me a pile of resumes, and told me I had to hire one of the developers in the pile, the first thing I would do is schedule a party and invite all the developers on that list. This is what you need to do. ... At Levo League we had (and we still have) the developer potluck, which was a monthly event where we all drank wine, ate each other’s food, and discussed thigns [sic] that were important to us. Find a way to promote developer fellowship and then they will come. A lot of good developers (or testers or whatever) will see no appeal in that sort of thing, and it doesn't mean that they're bad developers or unpleasant to work with. Maybe they're busy. Maybe parties make them uncomfortable. Maybe they're perfectly sociable but prefer to spend their free time with people of more diverse backgrounds and interests than other developers.

touristtam 13y ago
> Maybe they're perfectly sociable but prefer to spend their free time with people of more diverse backgrounds and interests than other developers. Specially when you have a good amount of subculture involving "star" in the name ..... Nothing against those ones, but the amount of time a reference is totally lost on me is staggering.

theg2 13y ago

As someone in the younger age bracket (mid-late twenties), I think the "don't post ad's they'll come to you" idea is kind of an age-ist statement. I found my current job through a job posting, I'm passionate about my job, and work very hard to get the organization to meet it's goals. Sometimes when people are moving to new cities they will only find those jobs through recruiters or job postings.

fecak 13y ago
This article doesn't reflect the market for entry-level or even junior/mid-level talent. Once someone develops a reputation and a network, applying for jobs becomes much less common.
- theg2 13y ago
  While I agree, it doesn't address the issue where people decide to move. Even at my age I know networking is the best way to find the jobs you often want but excluding people because they aren't in your network is kind of limiting your options.

jmillikin 13y ago

Having a developer shortage doesn't only mean that it's difficult to hire developers. It means that to hire developers, you must hire them away from their current employer. There is no pool of unemployed software developers to hire out of, so if you're launching a startup or expanding your team then your only option is to entice a developer away from their existing job. Some observers are confused by the very large population of non-developers who apply for development jobs. These people do not know how to write software[1], and so should not be counted as developers for the purposes of this discussion any more than someone who can't use a multimeter would be called an electrician. One of the earliest blog posts I remember about this phenomena is from Joel Spolsky circa 2005[2], in which he observes that the top 0.5% of applicants is likely to include 99% of the applicants who are developers. [1] FizzBuzz is still the gold standard "can write software" test. [2] http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2005/01/27.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2005/01/27.html

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

pastProlog 13y ago

Companies throw up barriers in front of themselves, set up a high jump bar, and then wonder why people aren't running to them, to what is often a not-that-great opportunity. To me, the whole interview process is about companies achieving social dominance over you. No matter how desperate they are, they still need you to be crawling to them, not vice versa. Sometimes an outside headhunter calls me and asks if I want to talk to a company. I call and talk to someone at the company, and before I've even met anyone they want three references from me, preferably (or absolutely) former bosses. So before I even meet anyone, I'm supposed to call three former bosses and ask them all for a favor. It might happen a little farther down the process, but still. What it really means for me is I don't do "one off" interviews. Every few years or so I decide to get a new job, I fix my resume etc., ask my former bosses if they'd give me a recommendation, and then start interviewing at lots of companies. What this means is I'm only available for several weeks every few years. It wouldn't be a big thing for me to check out some new company half-way into my employment somewhere, but I'm not going to bother my old bosses every few months for one-off interviews. And why bother going and stammering in front of some officious HR person or manager about how you don't feel comfortable giving out recommendations so early on. Their expectations already turn the interview sour, "what am I hiding"? Then interviewers also expect you to work on their schedule. I have a job, things aren't going well there, yet they expect me to come in the middle of a work day and spend some hours there. I might even take the day off and the interviewer might call and cancel. Then should I wear a suit (I'm not in the Bay Area)? I used to drop my suit off in a friend's office, go to work, go to my friend's office, get in the suit, interview, go back to my friend's office, change, go back to work, then go to my friend's office, get the suit and go home. Or the interviewer asks very officiously why I want to work at the company. The answer I usually want to give is that I don't necessarily want to, someone called and asked if I was interested so I'm checking it out. But if an outside headhunter asked me to, it sounds kind of hollow. Blog posts with tips on interviewing say I should have a set BS answer for this but why should I? I want to work there for a fucking paycheck, why do you think I want to work there? Then other bullshit. Obviously I wouldn't badmouth people at my current or former employers. But if they ask me about the process at my current job and I'm honest about how fucked up it is it becomes my fault. Let's say I said we have no revision control, no staging servers, everything goes straight into production, no code reviews, no integration tests etc. Or maybe not that bad, but whatever. Or the company won't spend money to hire the amount of personnel they need, the machines they need, the software they need, whatever. Then they say why not? I say I've asked management and management said no. It becomes my fault when I'm honest and say I couldn't shake the pennies from management to set up a proper system. Even if I'm just a lowly developer and not even a team lead or something. Then there's the requirements. BSCS from a good school required. A few classes short and lots of experience? Tough luck. Or super-specific requirements for a number of technologies, all at a high level and for many years. Often for a crappy company, a crappy position that doesn't need anywhere near that kind of experience. Sometimes there will be a posting on some tech forum where people are laughing about a Craigslist posting asking for "9 years of experience with iPhone apps". It kind of drives home the point. Nowadays I usually don't even have the experience problem, but it's ridiculous when a requirement is for their version control system or something. I mean, how long would it really take me to learn perforce if I know subversion, git etc., as well as all the other job listing requirements? Companies make the interview process unpleasant, throw up all kinds of barriers and then wonder why they can't find good candidates. They also wonder why person to person recruiting is so effective, people bringing in people they know. The reason is because the inside person usually tells me "the job is yours if you want it". Most of my jobs have been gotten this way, I've only worked at two companies where I went in cold via a headhunter. It's just too unpleasant.

IAmARealDev 13y ago

> Here is something that boggles my mind, I don’t know how it’s possible that so many people with web startups have no idea how the internet works? If I were to open a shoe factory, I would learn all about making shoes. I would make a few shoes of my own. I would make sure that I knew everything that goes into making a shoe. Especially if I need to hire shoemakers, how else would I know if they are any good? > Developers can smell a non-technical founder from miles away. It tells them that you have zero respect for what they do, and you think they are just tools. The Twitter book by Nick Bilton mentioned no developers. Somehow that company was built with no developers. Your developers don’t want that to happen to them, and if you don’t care enough about what your company produces to learn how it works that’s the message you’re sending. Funny. The most attractive and profitable opportunities I have ever been presented with involved non-technical individuals with domain expertise and strong relationships in their market. They didn't unnecessarily pretend that they were something they weren't (read: a techie), and they didn't act like I was a god just because I knew how to code. They had spotted an interesting, potentially lucrative opportunity that required a website/web application and they were looking for a qualified partner who could help them exploit it. What boggles my mind is the number of "startups", most of them consumer focused, with: 1. A basic CRUD app. 2. A track record of "pre-traction" (read: modest usage/traffic at best). 3. Too many developers on staff using way too many [programming languages/frameworks/technologies]. You know, because it's cool to overengineer and prematurely optimize real-time distributed architectures, and stuff. 4. Compensation packages and office space that look great assuming you don't perform the burn rate math, which doesn't really matter. Unless you want to know how long your salary will last and your key to the office will work. And who wants to know that? 5. The mistaken belief that their employees don't have a social life of their own. You know, because everyone knows the best developers don't have friends. 6. The delusion that their use of AWS makes them a "technology company." You know, because that's more fashionable than calling your web-based staffing agency for animal trainers a staffing agency. The OP is right. There is no shortage of developers. But she's wrong about why so many companies can't seem to recruit them. These companies are not looking for developers. They're looking for developers who have more experience and skill than their "businesses" require and who also happen to be suckers. And there just aren't that many of these people out there.

13y ago

alien3d 13y ago

Yes ,there is a shortage. It depend based on what language and framework. Nowdays php or java or javascript got lot of framework.For a junior developer to master each of it,quite some time.

calroc 13y ago

"KNOW HOW THE DOUGHNUTS ARE MADE" In my recent experience working for startups in the SF Bay Area I saw this pattern repeatedly, and it shocked me. Otherwise intelligent and competent people are, in effect, setting their money on fire and wasting lots of time and energy playing at having a real company. For some reason people think they can start and run a "web startup" without the most basic understanding of what they're attempting to do (technically.) At one point I said to a developer co-worker, "These folks have only ever seen the Internet from the outside." He agreed. It seems to me that part of the issue stems from the invisible nature of the machinery we build. If it were cars, or houses, I don't think folks would be quite so ready to blindly charge into business. But part of it is just weird. I'm actually looking for work right now but, because I no longer wish to work as a carpenter on the Winchester Mystery House (look it up) I'm having a hard time finding a job I can feel good about. More pay doesn't tempt me, nor the prospect of warm fuzzy social interaction with co-workers. I want to work with people who know what they're doing.

mgkimsal 13y ago
"setting their money on fire" Usually they're setting someone else's money on fire...
- calroc 13y ago
  Well, waste is waste. Burning VC money is practically criminal when you think of the "opportunity cost" of what might have been achieved with it. The saddest was overhearing a (retired) doctor I worked for attempting to mortgage his house.

adamconroy 13y ago

That is a very strange post. Is the article actually "There is no such thing as a developer shortage in the Bay area startup space"? Because the rest of the world doesn't work like that, where the rest of the world equals London, New York and Australia. In those places perfectly good developers are found by job ads, word of mouth, former colleagues, recruiters and nepotism. Throw a fucking party, what a tedious idea.

bobfirestone 13y ago

Having problems hiring a senior level developer? Increase what you are offering by $50k. In the current market a competent developer who want a job, has a job. If you want to be taken seriously start with a serious number.

crazygringo 13y ago

Let me get this straight. There is no developer shortage... ...but "the developers you want to hire are never applying to job listings", "good developers can pick and choose the companies they want to work for", and then the author starts suggesting that you need creative things like parties and potlucks just to find and attract developers? Um... sorry, but that's a shortage. If there weren't a shortage, then the developers you want to hire would be applying to your job listings, and you wouldn't have to be writing this blog post about all these special things you have to do to find developers.

randomdata 13y ago
A shortage isn't characterized by your inability to acquire something you want. There is a price component. If throwing parties and potlucks is working, then it is clear that the price equilibrium has not been reached, and therefore anyone offering less are simply not in the market.

softbuilder 13y ago

Posts like this have an almost PUA quality to them. Weird. Developers are people. To hire them you have to establish a relationship with them. If you try to shortcut that, you're gonna have a bad time. It's a long-term game. Yes, you can get some attention with parties and other stunts. That is no guarantee of quality or retention and it isn't sustainable. pastProlog nails it elsewhere on this page.