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I think the issue here is this part : "One explanation for this could be money laundering" Selling some useless crap for stupid prices is one of the easiest l

by mortov 13y ago

I think the issue here is this part : "One explanation for this could be money laundering" Selling some useless crap for stupid prices is one of the easiest laundering techniques beloved of many people trying to account for a sudden influx of wealth. Oh ? The suitcase of cash, well it's like this, I sold some old jeans, my wrecked chevvy and a busted tennis raquet to some nameless guy down the [pub|bowling alley|policemans annual ball] and he gave me like $250,000 in this suitcase for them. I'm sure some of these apps are people having a laugh and then getting an even bigger laugh when someone actually pays the stupid price tag they put on. However, at least some of this has a distinct whiff of laundry detergent and it's always useful to have some schmucks innocently purchasing thrown in for good measure to delay investigators as they follow dead ends to people with more money than sense.

corresation 13y ago
"Selling some useless crap for stupid prices is one of the easiest laundering techniques" If the goal is to do something completely and utterly ineffective, sure. If you were under suspicion and justified an influx of cash through specious claims, the money would be confiscated as proceeds of crime and you'd be on the hook to prove otherwise. People can argue whether that's fair or not, but the whole reason real money laundering exists is to integrate shady money into legitimate trades and enterprise, and this is a very complex, very involved endeavor: You can't simply manufacture a ridiculous explanation and call it a day, or you might as well simply hand it over when they come calling and put your hands out.
- mortov 13y ago
  Even though most proceeds of crime legislation uses balance of probablity as opposed to beyond reasonable doubt, the practice is generally for you to be able to show some explanation where it come from which is non-criminal in order to keep the cash. Immoral (such as selling crap to people paying stupid prices for something which is worthless) is not enough to have the cash taken off you. There are lots of stories of people being duped but no actual law being broken; you pay me $50,000 for my burned out chevvy, that's your problem. I have a way to explain $50,000 out of thin air. Any junk yard will sell me a wrecked car for $100 and it's just a profitable business transaction for me to sell it on. Plus, you don't care because I gave you $55,000 15 minutes before the "transaction" so you made a profit when you handed me back $50,000! In practice to get to a confiscation hearing, there is an investigation which means following the transaction trail and the more complex and convoluted that is made with dead ends and people who disappear (but leave a small trail of evidence they were around at some point to prove they are real), the more time and money authorities expend and the longer it goes on with me hanging onto the money (even if you seized some of it already). The fact I'm selling crap and the transactions make it look like I'm mining gold in a moron mine is enough for a good lawyer to talk me out a seizure or have some bargain made with the prosecutor (which I can always delay paying anyway if I'm in Scotland it seems : http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/crime/revealed-75m-dirty-money-still-2976478 http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/crime/revealed-75m-dirty-m.... I'm sure other places have similar stories.) How legislation is supposed to work (as portrayed in TV/Film Justice) and how it actually works in real life is very different. If it worked TV Style, every 419 scamming prince would be in cuffs when he went to the Western Union office to collect his processing fees. Instead they drive around Lagos in BMWs laughing at all the mugus they scammed with lame-ass stories.
dlhavema 13y ago
Dont you need a legit paper/electronic money trail to actually launder money?
- nicholassmith 13y ago
  If you're doing it properly, then yeah having a paper trail to justify it helps. Currently some of the drug dealers in the UK are using fixed odds betting machines in betting shops, they put money in, make safeish bets, lose some money, maybe win some then check out however much they've got and move onto the next one. Keeps a trail as you're on CCTV doing something entirely legitimate.

by mortov 13y ago

corresation 13y ago

"Selling some useless crap for stupid prices is one of the easiest laundering techniques" If the goal is to do something completely and utterly ineffective, sure. If you were under suspicion and justified an influx of cash through specious claims, the money would be confiscated as proceeds of crime and you'd be on the hook to prove otherwise. People can argue whether that's fair or not, but the whole reason real money laundering exists is to integrate shady money into legitimate trades and enterprise, and this is a very complex, very involved endeavor: You can't simply manufacture a ridiculous explanation and call it a day, or you might as well simply hand it over when they come calling and put your hands out.

mortov 13y ago
Even though most proceeds of crime legislation uses balance of probablity as opposed to beyond reasonable doubt, the practice is generally for you to be able to show some explanation where it come from which is non-criminal in order to keep the cash. Immoral (such as selling crap to people paying stupid prices for something which is worthless) is not enough to have the cash taken off you. There are lots of stories of people being duped but no actual law being broken; you pay me $50,000 for my burned out chevvy, that's your problem. I have a way to explain $50,000 out of thin air. Any junk yard will sell me a wrecked car for $100 and it's just a profitable business transaction for me to sell it on. Plus, you don't care because I gave you $55,000 15 minutes before the "transaction" so you made a profit when you handed me back $50,000! In practice to get to a confiscation hearing, there is an investigation which means following the transaction trail and the more complex and convoluted that is made with dead ends and people who disappear (but leave a small trail of evidence they were around at some point to prove they are real), the more time and money authorities expend and the longer it goes on with me hanging onto the money (even if you seized some of it already). The fact I'm selling crap and the transactions make it look like I'm mining gold in a moron mine is enough for a good lawyer to talk me out a seizure or have some bargain made with the prosecutor (which I can always delay paying anyway if I'm in Scotland it seems : http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/crime/revealed-75m-dirty-money-still-2976478 http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/crime/revealed-75m-dirty-m.... I'm sure other places have similar stories.) How legislation is supposed to work (as portrayed in TV/Film Justice) and how it actually works in real life is very different. If it worked TV Style, every 419 scamming prince would be in cuffs when he went to the Western Union office to collect his processing fees. Instead they drive around Lagos in BMWs laughing at all the mugus they scammed with lame-ass stories.

dlhavema 13y ago

Dont you need a legit paper/electronic money trail to actually launder money?

nicholassmith 13y ago
If you're doing it properly, then yeah having a paper trail to justify it helps. Currently some of the drug dealers in the UK are using fixed odds betting machines in betting shops, they put money in, make safeish bets, lose some money, maybe win some then check out however much they've got and move onto the next one. Keeps a trail as you're on CCTV doing something entirely legitimate.