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Well, I suppose you are right, but you have to cite an extreme case of literally worrying about getting murdered every day. Do those schools exist? Yes, but the

by bedhead 13y ago

Well, I suppose you are right, but you have to cite an extreme case of literally worrying about getting murdered every day. Do those schools exist? Yes, but they are few and far between, and there is a world of difference between "underfunded" and the case you're citing. Since the original comment made no mention of a gangland war zone at his brother's school (seems relevant to the story) I assumed this was not the case, though I could be wrong in which case I'll concede the point. Does school quality have an impact? Sure, I think around the edges it does. It can certainly grease the wheels. But over time the people who are wired properly for success (good values, work ethic, god-given intelligence) usually figure out a way. Perhaps more accurately, they don't live relatively dysfunctional adult lives and are unable to hold "neck down" jobs.

Denzel 13y ago
Just to provide context, underfunded was my nice way of saying exactly what you describe. Kids have been stabbed and gun fights have broken out inside the school. That was my fault for not making it clear, I apologize.
- bedhead 13y ago
  Thanks for the clarification. As I said, in these extreme cases then yes, I do believe school plays a larger role than normal. Also, to further clarify, I think the more important issue with school isn't so much the quality of the learning going on or what material is being taught or whether every classroom has smartboard or whatever. I think it has far more to do with the nature of the kids you're surrounded with, whether one starts hanging out with the wrong crowd which can corrupt all those other things (iq, family values, etc).
GVIrish 13y ago
Yes but do good values and work ethic come from genetics? I would argue no. That comes from the enviroment you grow up in, from your parents and siblings, to your peers, to your community. When we're talking school quality there are a couple of different components. Funding isn't a good metric as the United States spends a lot per student but gets worse results than many other countries (not unlike our healthcare system). I think there are a lot of systemic improvements to be made on that front. When we're talking about the significantly below average schools in the United States, those are absolutely producing worse outcomes for the kids that come out of them. Some of them will succeed anyway but that doesn't mean improving the school wouldn't lift up many of the others who struggle now.

by bedhead 13y ago

Denzel 13y ago

Just to provide context, underfunded was my nice way of saying exactly what you describe. Kids have been stabbed and gun fights have broken out inside the school. That was my fault for not making it clear, I apologize.

bedhead 13y ago
Thanks for the clarification. As I said, in these extreme cases then yes, I do believe school plays a larger role than normal. Also, to further clarify, I think the more important issue with school isn't so much the quality of the learning going on or what material is being taught or whether every classroom has smartboard or whatever. I think it has far more to do with the nature of the kids you're surrounded with, whether one starts hanging out with the wrong crowd which can corrupt all those other things (iq, family values, etc).

GVIrish 13y ago

Yes but do good values and work ethic come from genetics? I would argue no. That comes from the enviroment you grow up in, from your parents and siblings, to your peers, to your community. When we're talking school quality there are a couple of different components. Funding isn't a good metric as the United States spends a lot per student but gets worse results than many other countries (not unlike our healthcare system). I think there are a lot of systemic improvements to be made on that front. When we're talking about the significantly below average schools in the United States, those are absolutely producing worse outcomes for the kids that come out of them. Some of them will succeed anyway but that doesn't mean improving the school wouldn't lift up many of the others who struggle now.