6 ms·

> What I find surprising is that, in the process of writing a historical review on Microsoft, anyone would ignore the fact that MS has repeatedly identified are

> What I find surprising is that, in the process of writing a historical review on Microsoft, anyone would ignore the fact that MS has repeatedly identified areas of profit, moved in, failed spectacularly, iterated aggressively, and ultimately become dominant ... When was the last time they have actually managed to pull this off? Maybe the Xbox? It was never dominant or an area of profit. .NET? Never dominant or a direct source of profit. The days you are referring to are long gone. It's not the same company anymore and it's not the same world anymore.

jrs99 13y ago
Microsoft isn't even close to where apple was in terms of hitting a low.
- hcentelles 13y ago
  Maybe hit that low is what they need to make a comeback.
- mortenjorck 13y ago
  Another five years with Ballmer probably would have done it.
- blueskin_ 13y ago
  Give it time with this new 'cloud' guy.
octo_t 13y ago
Azure is ramping up towards something like that.
angersock 13y ago
Xbox, Xbox Live, Xbox 360... yeah, sorry, they pretty much perfectly illustrated that point. Considering the early advantage Java had over C#, who seems to be laughing now? Business apps (you know, the boring 90% of software) seems overwhelmingly in favor of those two languages, with C# doing a bit better. I think you're rather wrong.
- herge 13y ago
  C# also begets MSSQL.
  - sk5t 13y ago
    Definitely not. CLR integration within MSSQL is, at best, widely ignored.
- cgh 13y ago
  Disagree about C#/.NET "doing better" than Java (by which I think you mean more widely deployed). Java is nearly ubiquitous in big corps from Cisco to LinkedIn and everything in between. On the desktop, C# obvious wins, however. But your point still stands: MS went from a standing start to a credible competitor, overcoming their early embrace-and-extinguish failures like Visual J++.
- blueskin_ 13y ago
  I'd say Java is far more popular than C#.
- tolmasky 13y ago
  Another important realization is how many games are now being written in C# thanks to Mono/Unity, and on iOS no less! Arguably they may not be getting a "direct benefit" from this, but for example I would have never imagined ever being proficient in C#, yet here I am now with this skillset and fluent in a tech I would have otherwise had no interest in whatsoever. Because of this, I now actually have a favorable opinion of .NET, and while not having a particular interest in enterprise, would certainly be more likely to use these technologies for it if for whatever reason chance took me to that space.
Guvante 13y ago
I don't know why you are saying the Xbox was never dominant. I don't think anyone could see the 360 doing any better. .NET is doing extremely well given the alternatives. Azure is picking up speed fairly well too.
- DrJokepu 13y ago
  I don't think Xbox ever dominated the console market the way Windows dominated the desktop operating system market or Office dominated the office application suite market. Not even close. Same goes for .NET. These are clearly very successful products but are very far from "dominating the market".
  - Guvante 13y ago
    Different uses of the word. 30% market share is dominating in my book, and I believe both of those do that in their markets. Windows is on a whole different level, you cannot compare anything to it because nothing comes close. 90% market share is practically impossible.
- JohnBooty 13y ago
  They sold a lot of XBox 360s, but that division has never made much money, which is the point. References: http://www.microsoft.com/Investor/EarningsAndFinancials/Earnings/SegmentResults/S2/FY14/Q2/Performance.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/Investor/EarningsAndFinancials/Earn... (Of course, check out "gross margin" and not "revenue.")
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    They are using the Xbox as a gateway to the living room to launch other businesses, rather than trying to make lots of profit on the Xbox directly.
    - JohnBooty 13y ago
      I think they'd like that to be the case, but it hasn't worked yet in that division's decade-plus existence. Unless we're going to say that the XBox is helping them sell SQL Server and Office licenses over in the other divisions.
vailripper 13y ago
.NET is massive driver for their Enterprise business which is an absolute goldmine for them currently. So I'd say they're doing okay there.
cm2012 13y ago
Bing is also getting better and better. As an advertiser we're seeing more and better viewers and upping our bing spend significantly. Their reps are also great and showing up at conferences pretty often.

jrs99 13y ago

Microsoft isn't even close to where apple was in terms of hitting a low.

hcentelles 13y ago
Maybe hit that low is what they need to make a comeback.
mortenjorck 13y ago
Another five years with Ballmer probably would have done it.
blueskin_ 13y ago
Give it time with this new 'cloud' guy.

octo_t 13y ago

Azure is ramping up towards something like that.

angersock 13y ago

Xbox, Xbox Live, Xbox 360... yeah, sorry, they pretty much perfectly illustrated that point. Considering the early advantage Java had over C#, who seems to be laughing now? Business apps (you know, the boring 90% of software) seems overwhelmingly in favor of those two languages, with C# doing a bit better. I think you're rather wrong.

herge 13y ago
C# also begets MSSQL.
- sk5t 13y ago
  Definitely not. CLR integration within MSSQL is, at best, widely ignored.
cgh 13y ago
Disagree about C#/.NET "doing better" than Java (by which I think you mean more widely deployed). Java is nearly ubiquitous in big corps from Cisco to LinkedIn and everything in between. On the desktop, C# obvious wins, however. But your point still stands: MS went from a standing start to a credible competitor, overcoming their early embrace-and-extinguish failures like Visual J++.
blueskin_ 13y ago
I'd say Java is far more popular than C#.
tolmasky 13y ago
Another important realization is how many games are now being written in C# thanks to Mono/Unity, and on iOS no less! Arguably they may not be getting a "direct benefit" from this, but for example I would have never imagined ever being proficient in C#, yet here I am now with this skillset and fluent in a tech I would have otherwise had no interest in whatsoever. Because of this, I now actually have a favorable opinion of .NET, and while not having a particular interest in enterprise, would certainly be more likely to use these technologies for it if for whatever reason chance took me to that space.

Guvante 13y ago

I don't know why you are saying the Xbox was never dominant. I don't think anyone could see the 360 doing any better. .NET is doing extremely well given the alternatives. Azure is picking up speed fairly well too.

DrJokepu 13y ago
I don't think Xbox ever dominated the console market the way Windows dominated the desktop operating system market or Office dominated the office application suite market. Not even close. Same goes for .NET. These are clearly very successful products but are very far from "dominating the market".
- Guvante 13y ago
  Different uses of the word. 30% market share is dominating in my book, and I believe both of those do that in their markets. Windows is on a whole different level, you cannot compare anything to it because nothing comes close. 90% market share is practically impossible.
JohnBooty 13y ago
They sold a lot of XBox 360s, but that division has never made much money, which is the point. References: http://www.microsoft.com/Investor/EarningsAndFinancials/Earnings/SegmentResults/S2/FY14/Q2/Performance.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/Investor/EarningsAndFinancials/Earn... (Of course, check out "gross margin" and not "revenue.")
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  They are using the Xbox as a gateway to the living room to launch other businesses, rather than trying to make lots of profit on the Xbox directly.
  - JohnBooty 13y ago
    I think they'd like that to be the case, but it hasn't worked yet in that division's decade-plus existence. Unless we're going to say that the XBox is helping them sell SQL Server and Office licenses over in the other divisions.

vailripper 13y ago

.NET is massive driver for their Enterprise business which is an absolute goldmine for them currently. So I'd say they're doing okay there.

cm2012 13y ago

Bing is also getting better and better. As an advertiser we're seeing more and better viewers and upping our bing spend significantly. Their reps are also great and showing up at conferences pretty often.