4 ms·

We use basecamp and campfire at work. Basecamp is mediocre, not horrible and not great. Campfire sucks compared to similar tools that I've used in the past. Se

by dror 13y ago

We use basecamp and campfire at work. Basecamp is mediocre, not horrible and not great. Campfire sucks compared to similar tools that I've used in the past. Seems to me that they've been successful mostly because of their involvement in the Ruby and startup world, rather than making great products. Nothing wrong with that, but it's good to be clear about the distinction between a company that makes great product and a company that's good at marketing itself.

girvo 13y ago
A lot of people (myself included) would disagree with you there. The fact that they can afford to do something like the OP is announcing is sort of proving that... I've not used any project management tool that I've liked as much as Basecamp, and I've used heaps of them. Campfire is pretty bad though, yeah.
- FireBeyond 13y ago
  That doesn't really make sense to me - "they can afford to shutter their other products" (or rather, spin them off) because of how good they are? Or, rather, that there's no significant loss to them due to shuttering, because of the (relative) lack of use. That said, spinning off would be the -wise- idea. Most likely they'll find a good amount from a buyer based on the name and reputation.
stock_toaster 13y ago
I would agree that campfire, the web app, is lacking. However, there are some pretty decent "apps" that you can use. I use and like flint[1]. [1]: http://giantcomet.com/flint/mac/ http://giantcomet.com/flint/mac/
theknown99 13y ago
It was also a pretty dick move when they complained after someone (from Google?) reimplemented campfire in a day, and made them take it down. If your entire product can be copied in a day, it's probably not that great.
- nacs 13y ago
  I'd think an HN user would know better.. It takes drastically less time to clone a product than to make it from scratch and refine it to perfection.
  - theknown99 13y ago
    So why did they cry and make google remove the webchat client then? The idea that campfire is refined to perfection is laughable.
  - midas007 13y ago
    Execution is somewhat hard, but there needs to be durable competitive advantage: user base, brand, IP, talent, etc. All other things being more-less equal, a few apps will inevitably dominate. (I would acquire Asana and Rally Software which owns FlowDock.)
calibraxis 13y ago
What are great alternatives to Basecamp? (I don't use Basecamp but am interested in the space.)
- k1w1 13y ago
  The thing that Basecamp does well is that it is a generic project management tool that can be used for any kind of project - thus its wide appeal. The most interesting alternatives are ones that specialize in particular types of projects. For example, if you are a designer there is Solo and if you are a product manager there is my product Aha! - http://www.aha.io http://www.aha.io. These alternatives specialize by taking the common elements of project management software (like todo lists, calendars and comments) and tailoring them towards a particular job function.
  - calibraxis 13y ago
    Thank you! Checking out Aha! now. Seems Solo may come in handy too sometime...
- loomio 13y ago
  Totally depends what you're trying to accomplish. Basecamp can be great for managing a whole project in all its complexity. But often times that's overkill, and too many features get in the way. We[0] differentiate by keeping it as simple as possible: have discussions and make decisions together, that's it. Other tools are great for other types of projects, such as Trello[1] for a sort of collaborative to-do list. [0] http://www.loomio.org http://www.loomio.org [1] http://www.trello.com http://www.trello.com
- neilkelty 13y ago
  After being a Basecamp customer basically since Launch, I've begun trying Asana - http://www.asana.com http://www.asana.com
adrianhoward 13y ago
"Seems to me that they've been successful mostly because of their involvement in the Ruby and startup world, rather than making great products" You also need to look at when basecamp & campfire were first released. They were significantly better in comparison to the competition at the time. And while basecamp doesn't personally fit with how I run and manage projects, I know a lot of people who are very happy with it. It fits in with how a lot of companies (many of them not "technical" companies) run their projects. For a certain kind of business it's a very good product. "Nothing wrong with that, but it's good to be clear about the distinction between a company that makes great product and a company that's good at marketing itself" A company that's not good at marketing and sales doesn't stay a company - no matter how good the products are ;-)
- capdiz 13y ago
  "A company that's not good at marketing and sales doesn't stay a company - no matter how good the products are ;-)". does a product that grows due to word of mouth amount to good marketing? i believe not. dropbox, github and recently put.io. i learnt about these products because of word of mouth e.g show hn not Google ads or some youtube marketing gimmick. i tend to use a product if a friend i know is immune to FOMO recommends it to me.

by dror 13y ago

girvo 13y ago

A lot of people (myself included) would disagree with you there. The fact that they can afford to do something like the OP is announcing is sort of proving that... I've not used any project management tool that I've liked as much as Basecamp, and I've used heaps of them. Campfire is pretty bad though, yeah.

FireBeyond 13y ago
That doesn't really make sense to me - "they can afford to shutter their other products" (or rather, spin them off) because of how good they are? Or, rather, that there's no significant loss to them due to shuttering, because of the (relative) lack of use. That said, spinning off would be the -wise- idea. Most likely they'll find a good amount from a buyer based on the name and reputation.

stock_toaster 13y ago

I would agree that campfire, the web app, is lacking. However, there are some pretty decent "apps" that you can use. I use and like flint[1]. [1]: http://giantcomet.com/flint/mac/ http://giantcomet.com/flint/mac/

theknown99 13y ago

It was also a pretty dick move when they complained after someone (from Google?) reimplemented campfire in a day, and made them take it down. If your entire product can be copied in a day, it's probably not that great.

nacs 13y ago
I'd think an HN user would know better.. It takes drastically less time to clone a product than to make it from scratch and refine it to perfection.
- theknown99 13y ago
  So why did they cry and make google remove the webchat client then? The idea that campfire is refined to perfection is laughable.
- midas007 13y ago
  Execution is somewhat hard, but there needs to be durable competitive advantage: user base, brand, IP, talent, etc. All other things being more-less equal, a few apps will inevitably dominate. (I would acquire Asana and Rally Software which owns FlowDock.)

calibraxis 13y ago

What are great alternatives to Basecamp? (I don't use Basecamp but am interested in the space.)

k1w1 13y ago
The thing that Basecamp does well is that it is a generic project management tool that can be used for any kind of project - thus its wide appeal. The most interesting alternatives are ones that specialize in particular types of projects. For example, if you are a designer there is Solo and if you are a product manager there is my product Aha! - http://www.aha.io http://www.aha.io. These alternatives specialize by taking the common elements of project management software (like todo lists, calendars and comments) and tailoring them towards a particular job function.
- calibraxis 13y ago
  Thank you! Checking out Aha! now. Seems Solo may come in handy too sometime...
loomio 13y ago
Totally depends what you're trying to accomplish. Basecamp can be great for managing a whole project in all its complexity. But often times that's overkill, and too many features get in the way. We[0] differentiate by keeping it as simple as possible: have discussions and make decisions together, that's it. Other tools are great for other types of projects, such as Trello[1] for a sort of collaborative to-do list. [0] http://www.loomio.org http://www.loomio.org [1] http://www.trello.com http://www.trello.com
neilkelty 13y ago
After being a Basecamp customer basically since Launch, I've begun trying Asana - http://www.asana.com http://www.asana.com

adrianhoward 13y ago

"Seems to me that they've been successful mostly because of their involvement in the Ruby and startup world, rather than making great products" You also need to look at when basecamp & campfire were first released. They were significantly better in comparison to the competition at the time. And while basecamp doesn't personally fit with how I run and manage projects, I know a lot of people who are very happy with it. It fits in with how a lot of companies (many of them not "technical" companies) run their projects. For a certain kind of business it's a very good product. "Nothing wrong with that, but it's good to be clear about the distinction between a company that makes great product and a company that's good at marketing itself" A company that's not good at marketing and sales doesn't stay a company - no matter how good the products are ;-)

capdiz 13y ago
"A company that's not good at marketing and sales doesn't stay a company - no matter how good the products are ;-)". does a product that grows due to word of mouth amount to good marketing? i believe not. dropbox, github and recently put.io. i learnt about these products because of word of mouth e.g show hn not Google ads or some youtube marketing gimmick. i tend to use a product if a friend i know is immune to FOMO recommends it to me.