20 ms·
37signals becomes Basecamp
- philfreo 13y agoalready on the homepage: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7181940 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7181940
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- jacobr 13y ago> When we meet people, and they ask us what we do, we say we work for 37signals. If they aren't in the tech world, they'll squint and say "what's that?". When we say "we're the folks who make Basecamp", their eyes light up and open wide. "Basecamp! Oh I love Basecamp! My wife uses Basecamp too! [my emphasis] Even our church uses Basecamp!" So, "people" = men?
- IbJacked 13y agoIn that one example cited, yes. Universally? No, of course not. Come on, there's no need to stir up controversy in everything you read.
- chris_wot 13y agoGay marriage not legal in your neck of the woods?
- Styn 13y agoBecause two women can't be married? You're nitpicking.
- garethadams 13y agoChristian men too. Call the small-sample police!
- yen223 13y agoSometimes, right before I submit a comment I'd ask myself, "What do I hope to achieve by writing this comment? Will people be entertained by this comment? Will the audience find their worldview challenged? Would the world be better off with the comment I'm about to make, or am I just wasting everyone's time?" I'd suggest you do the same.
- terabytest 13y agoWhat a shit comment. Not even sugar-coating it.
- thescrewdriver 13y agoAm I the only one who had never heard of 37signals before?
- RafiqM 13y agoWow, as one of the "pioneers" of the SaaS model, and a highly successful bootstrapped startup for 10+ years, I would have to say... yes, I would imagine you are one of very few people in this community who would have never heard of 37signals.
- derefr 13y agoIt's weird how open-source encourages using something without really understanding how it originated. I bet less than 10% of the people who use Rails realize it came from a company, let alone which one. (The same will probably become true of dotCloud with Docker soon enough.)
- fs111 13y agoPioneer? web-mail is nothing else but SaaS in the end and it exists way longer than 37Signals...
- RafiqM 13y agoSaaS as a business model, not as a technology. Webmail was a feature, not the entire business, for the most part. I'm sure you can find examples of SaaS before 37signals, but that doesn't detract from the fact that they were amongst the first to build an entire company from the business model.
- ig1 13y agoNot really. Basecamp wasn't created until 2003, in the second wave of of web SaaS after the Salesforce wave (1999).
- theknown99 13y agoHow can you be a "startup" for 10 years? Will they ever stop being a "startup"?
- jhund 13y agoTwo thoughts on this: 1) Strategy is primarily about saying "No" to activities that are not aligned with your goals and values. Here is a great example for saying no in a pretty gutsy way. 2) I have used Basecamp since its launch for my client work and like it quite a bit. However, lately I have preferred to work with Trello. I'm curious to see how Basecamp will change in the near future. Maybe I'm not their target customer any more...
- alexcroox 13y agoWhile I admire 37signals I do find myself increasingly comparing them to Google and their offering. They make incredible services, but it's hard to trust them to build your business workflow around their products. If there aren't stripping back critical business features such as time tracking for our billing in the new Basecamp, they are looking to shutdown or sell others a few years on. I hate corporate software as much as the next guy, but at least you know it will be around and supported for a long time to come and without stripping features core to running your business. /rant
- sgdesign 13y agoWell, what would you have them do? Would it really be better for them to keep spreading themselves thin supporting too many products? On the contrary, I think them refocusing on Basecamp should give you more trust that they won't pull a Google and pull the plug on it.
- k-mcgrady 13y agoThe problem is spreading yourself too thin in the first place, getting people to rely on your products, and then pulling them. I think it's much more acceptable for a small business like 37Signals to do this than a large one like Google. Google has the resources to keep products around, 37Signals doesn't.
- LeicaLatte 13y agoNot sure about the move itself but I am glad they chose Basecamp. Started using Basecamp in 2005 and still use it. Basecamp is a nice umbrella all their products seem to fit into. And I am for making the company and the product as one. One less thing to sell. For companies of that size.
- kesor 13y agoWho will buy Campfire? Atlassian or GitHub?
- daveoflynn 13y agoAtlassian already owns HipChat. Bet GitHub steps up, as they use it already.
- theknown99 13y agoGithub would be better to write a campfire clone in a day or so, and roll it out. I'm betting github has a larger userbase than campfire, so what would be the point in paying a few million for campfire?
- adrinavarro 13y agoThe talent and know-how? I thought we were already past the "why buy it if you can copy it".
- theknown99 13y ago"Talent and know how"? Seriously? Is writing a webchat client some black dark art? There's nothing much you need to know to write a webchat client. Campfire isn't high volume, so it doesn't need to be too efficient either. Last time I checked campfire processes a few messages a second. Heck you could rewrite it in PHP/MySQL if you were that way inclined. Campfire didn't succeed because it was a good product. It succeeded because they marketed it to their "following" who bought into it.
- josefresco 13y agoYou could levy that same criticism on any company who leveraged an existing success to market and sell a less than stellar product or service. Many times people will see a product or company and think "how simple, I could have made that ... why did they succeed?" Everyone has assets they bring to the table that help them succeed. For some it means they can create and sell a less than stellar product because they have existing leverage in a market that give them an advantage an average "Joe" wouldn't.
- MattBearman 13y agoSo does this mean all their other products will be killed / sold?
- wbercx 13y agoThey will be kept alive one way or another, as described if you check out the link.
- MattBearman 13y agoAh, ok. I did read the article, but it was a half read, half skim, so I must have missed that.
- jaimebuelta 13y agoIt still escapes me why this recent trend of naming companies with the names of products "for brand recognition" (the other obvious example is 10gen to become MongoDB Inc.) It would be interesting to see other companies do that in the past: - "Microsoft is going to become Windows Inc" - "Apple Computers will be known from now on as iPod Ltd" - "The new name of the company will be Air Jordan & Co. Nike no more!"
- _pmf_ 13y ago> "Apple Computers will be known from now on as iPod Ltd" Or "Newton Handheld".
- polskibus 13y agoBloomberg was once called "Innovative Market Systems". The customers called BBG terminal as Bloomberg from the start. Hence the renaming. (source: wikipedia).
- aytekin 13y agoLarge companies have big pockets and lots of people so they split their resources on multiple products. Things are very different for small companies and startups. Losing focus for a small company is deadly. It is extremely hard to be the best in a single market, trying to do it in multiple markets is crazy. Best strategy for a startup is to find the best market they have a chance at dominating and focus all of their resources on it. Branding is just one of the resources you have. You want everyone to mention your product when they talk about you.
- abalone 13y agoYou forgot about a product called the Apple II Computer by Apple Computer.
- coob 13y agoOne way to see the renaming is that it's not for outsiders, it's for those that work there. There's nothing that could do the job of informing everyone in your company what the new direction is more effective thank this.
- 13y ago
- keeptrying 13y agoThis smells like they are going to try to pull a Atlassian. And they will also go take VC money ... Going to be fun to watch :)
- rxdazn 13y agowhat's pulling an Atlassian?
- sah2ed 13y agoTo prepare for an IPO. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7029681 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7029681
- ordinathorreur 13y agoWhy would a profitable company like Basecamp need VC money?
- ry0ohki 13y agoProfitable companies take VC money all the time. In fact, I would guess that's where most VC money goes to (despite all the high profile SV startups that get press). Companies do so to grow at a faster rate.
- tyw 13y agoMore to the point, why would a profitable company who wants to stay small take VC money?
- billyhoffman 13y agoDo you even know anything about 37Signals? With even a superficial study of the company, its public figures, or their publications you would know that "taking VC money" or massive growth would be anathema to 37Signals. On the level of "Doctors without Borders" going into the landmine business. 37Signals has an interesting and often counter intuitive approach to a modern software business. While I don't always agree with their methods or dogma, it is fascinating to watch what they try and, more specifically, how they actually execute on their ideals. It's like a science experiment that I don't have to pay for :-) The worse thing for everyone, customers and voyeurs, would be to take VC money and become like Atlassian.
- usablebytes 13y agoPeople, please watch these few videos to genuinely understand what 37Signal guys (David and Jason) stand for before having a say. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XD2kNopsUs&list=PLuBTPnEIr6JJrwgxPpOD2n4OzAJzkchUJ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XD2kNopsUs&list=PLuBTPnEIr6J... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzERXJgi5vQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzERXJgi5vQ and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPrvnlvnu-k http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPrvnlvnu-k and yea, don't forget https://twitter.com/shitmydadsays/status/10390379840929792 https://twitter.com/shitmydadsays/status/10390379840929792
- speeder 13y agoI was wondering from the headline if there was a merger... And from reading the post, it downed to me: I am one of.those that never realized the Basecamp 37signals connection, and I do read their blog! To me 37signals was that webdev shop that made Rails and had a cool blog, I never connected them to any of their products Oo
- kristiandupont 13y agoJust fyi, the idiom is "it dawned on me".
- level09 13y agois it just me or they are saying 'in other words' that only basecamp succeeded and most other products failed ? otherwise why not just bring in more devs instead of focusing on one product.
- lukevdp 13y agoI don't think you can call highrise being valued for "tens of millions" and campfire in "single digit millions" a failure.
- josefresco 13y agoDid you read the post? They specifically said they don't want to grow, and want a company where everyone knows everyone else. Simple "hiring more devs" flies in the face of this desire. Honestly it can be liberating to strip out less than ideal elements from your business to focus on what you love and what is working the best.
- jasonfried 13y agoCampfire and Highrise are not failures at all. They generate millions a year in profits. They just aren't our focus anymore. We want to focus all of our energy on one thing, not multiple things. Nothing more than that. No hidden agendas or hidden news.
- cstejerean 13y agoSo what does this mean for the future of Campfire and Highrise?
- wlll 13y agoCheck out the FAQ: http://37signals.com/ http://37signals.com/
- faramarz 13y agoMe thinks they are feeling some pressure from rising stars like Asana and they are quickly trying to solidify their lead before it's too late.
- droopyEyelids 13y agoI don't think Asana competes with base camp, at all. It's an over customizable nightmare that you need engineers to administer for Big Corps. It competes with Jira. Basecamp is something that a nontechnical person can use.
- Grue3 13y ago10 years after they released Basecamp and apparently it's still their "best idea". This explains why every 37signals blogpost I read was so devoid of good ideas. One hit wonders.
- rgrieselhuber 13y agoI think most people would be happy to have a single idea that provided the basis for a multi-million dollar business. Have you had better luck?
- theknown99 13y agoThat's the point though. It's largely down to luck. It's not about some cutesy generalizations you distil into a formula for success and release as a book. It's certainly not about what language/framework you decide to use.
- 3stripe 13y agoSomehow I don't think luck is the major factor in determining the success of a SaaS business.
- arbuge 13y agoIf I had one idea with 15m businesses signing up, 7000 every week, like Basecamp has, every 10 years, I'd be happy. Commas are useful...
- pshin45 13y agoI remember DHH talking about this on a podcast once i.e. for most super-successful companies, the lion's share of their of their PROFITS (not usage or revenue w/o profit) have typically come from 1 or 2 core products. Think of Google and AdWords, Microsoft and Windows/Office, Amazon and their e-commerce business, etc. These companies all have lots of other successful products, each of which is used by millions of people and may generate lots of revenue, but at the end of the day their actual profits come from their 1 core product. Apple is the most recent example of a company that has successfully been able to create multiple different product lines that were extremely profitable on their own. So saying that Basecamp is 37Signals' "one good idea" is not a knock on them at all. It simply puts them in the same league as any other super-successful company. P.S. DHH is an unabashed capitalist and he's gone on the record many times saying that he'd rather be part of a company valued at $100 million that takes home $10's of millions home in profit every year vs a company valued at $1 billion that takes home minimal or no profits every year (e.g. Groupon). I'm assuming that this sentiment is shared by others at 37Signals as well.
- netcan 13y agoSoftware is a hard business. Novel becomes trivial fast. Competitive edge can become a standard "best" practice fast and a product or business which was revolutionary and profitable one decade can seem naive the next. Basecamp needs to move to keep up. They have their commitment to "not too much software" and simplicity which is great but has some tradeoffs. In any case, collaboration between people working on things remotely or in the same office using the internet is not done yet. There are still big things to be figured out. The culture and the technology is evolving. Personally, I use Basecamp and it is better than email for a lot of things, but there are a lot of thing I wish it did or did differently. In essence, there is plenty of work for a 50 person team in this space. Good luck to them.
- taude 13y agoAnd that space has a ton of competitors in it now, too. Some heavy hitters like Podio, Asana, Zoho. I don't see any reason why some of 37's other products can't get rolled up into Basecamp as features/modules though.
- henryaj 13y ago> I don't see any reason why some of 37's other products can't get rolled up into Basecamp as features/modules though. Mm - that's what I assumed they would do. Slightly surprised that their plan is to spin them off to third parties.
- jasonfried 13y agoAnything is possible with software - especially horrible complexity. Rolling more things into something isn't the way forward. We're committed to getting simpler over time, not harder. Not more stuff, but the right stuff.
- Angostura 13y agoNo mention of Trello, I see.
- ry0ohki 13y agoI saw a couple of people saying things like this, it always seemed to me they are different customers, Trello is for internal project management, where Basecamp is better for external client facing management (which is what 37s made it for to begin with).
- dirtyaura 13y agoWhy would they mention competiting product?
- Angostura 13y agoBecause Trello is a Basecamp product?
- OoTheNigerian 13y agoLol. People, why the hate? 90% of the 'issues' raised in the comment thread including that by alexcroox can be answered by reading the post. Here, in case you missed it http://37signals.com/ http://37signals.com/ The other 10% are outright misleading. BTW, Alex Croox, once you start a business, you must run it forever right? Well, I have decided to build my flow around all your project here alexcrooks.me Don't shut any down hommie.
- lucasnemeth 13y agoSingle product company is more Omakase.
- psteinweber 13y agoSimple wins, and they know it!
- henryaj 13y agoBasecamp may not have all the power features that some HN readers (and myself) would want, but in retrospect that's exactly the point - it makes their software simple and accessible. I love these guys. 37signals are an inspiration, and I've been using and loving Basecamp since I was 17 and running a company with my friends in school. To the next ten years.
- buttsex 13y agoWe managed dozens of clients at a time and one of the biggest compliments we get is on how easy it is to use Basecamp. Really looking forward to the new ideas they have in store.
- bovermyer 13y agoBravo, Basecamp. This is a wise move. Also, you clearly showed a lot of thought about where the other products will go with your scenarios. I approve.
- jasonfried 13y agoThanks. Glad it came through as clear in the end.
- simonswords82 13y agoWhenever I think 37 Signals may have started to slow down or stop innovating they throw another curve ball. Nice work guys, and thanks for all the stories and transparency. Here's to the next 15 years.
- GnwbZHiU 13y agoI still don't understand why basecamp is so popular. In my opinion it's just an average product, nothing special about it, but it has so many users.
- mhp 13y agoYou underestimate the power of marketing, design, and timing then. A good product is not a prerequisite to being popular by any means (although it certainly helps).
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- wj 13y agoI had just signed up for Highrise but haven't started implementing it yet. Sounds like the product will live on but I wouldn't mind some recommendations for alternatives if anybody has some. I've used both Salesforce and SugarCRM and they seem a bit overkill for my use.
- contingencies 13y agoTLDR; 37signals -> 1 signal: "basecamp"
- rwhitman 13y agoI'd say this has more to do with an existential crisis - the landscape for project management collaboration tools is very crowded with competitors, and some are vastly superior in many ways to Basecamp. I stopped using Basecamp years ago and groan every time a client makes me log into it. The early adopters have mostly given up on their core product. PM collab tools are becoming a commodity product in business, and 37 Signals got distracted and missed out on making sure that their brand was front and foremost in customers' minds. They could have doubled down on the brand and become the "Kleenex" of PM tools. But they waited too late and are now scrambling to re-affirm their dominance in the space. Thats how I see this.
- amplification 13y agoAny evidence to support this? If anything it seems like growth is accelerating.
- jasonfried 13y agoNo crisis. Business has never been better. The reasons are all honest and all clearly spelled out at http://37signals.com http://37signals.com. We just don't want to hire a bunch more people and we don't want to have to spread ourselves too thin. Focus is where it's at and we want to regain it.
- andyhnj 13y agoAm I the last guy still paying $7/month for a solo Backpack account? I've looked for good alternatives a few times, and never found anything I like as much as Backpack for basic note-taking. As long as they'll keep taking my $7, I guess I'll keep using it.
- skinnymuch 13y agoHaha, so am I. I thought I was the last person on it :P
- rootuid 13y agoTeamWork.com their biggest competitor, did this last week.
- doodyhead 13y agoIt's great to see an Irish start-up having such a big impact globally.
- keehun 13y agoCan anyone name a trust-worthy competitors? I've done some searching and most competitors seem to be still branded with "Web 2.0" bubbles and the apps left rotting in its own feces the last 5 years. I'm genuinely looking for competitors to Basecamp for small businesses. Zoho?
- pooshoot 13y ago"When we meet people, and they ask us what we do, we say we work for 37signals. If they aren't in the tech world, they'll squint and say "what's that?". When we say "we're the folks who make Basecamp", their eyes light up and open wide. "Basecamp! Oh I love Basecamp!..." I haven't seen someone so proud of their mediocre-at-best product. Basecamp leaves A LOT to be desired. We switched to Jira and couldn't be happier.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- anon808 13y agoThis makes perfect sense, and the 'spin-out' of knowyourcompany.com now makes even more sense. I think it's a good move.
- mathattack 13y agoVery interesting. 2 observations: 1) Will they lose the ability to experiment as a one product company? 2) "If we can't find the right partner or buyer, we are committed to continuing to run the products for our existing customers forever." This is very impressive. Forever is a long time, and comes with a real cost if you're not putting in new users. Bravo for a successful company to be willing to make big strategic moves.