6 ms·

Two big announcements

342 points by jboynyc 13y ago

tibbon 13y ago
Congrats on figuring it out and having a clear focus, but also to trying a lot of things over the years and figuring out what works. And thank you for being so responsible with the future of your legacy products. There are too many companies that are too happy to simply shut down things as soon as ROI numbers don't line up. Here's to the future.
tyrelb 13y ago
And I was just about to integrate Highrise into my app...moving on! Any suggestions on a Highrise competitor that is stable, etc.?
- aefeuer 13y ago
  We're big fans of Pipedrive
- zingui 13y ago
  We just finished moving or old CRM to Highrise. I hope that someone acquires and keep updating the product.
- philfreo 13y ago
  Give us a shot... http://close.io/ http://close.io/ We've also got an easy migration tool for any existing Highrise users: http://close.io/highrise http://close.io/highrise and a solid REST API http://developer.close.io/ http://developer.close.io/
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
- randall 13y ago
  We use Capsule + Streak. We're big fans of streak, but it's a baby CRM perfect for pipelines... we use Capsule to manage all of the other stuff. (Who talked to whom, etc.)
- andyfowler 13y ago
  Check us out at http://nutshell.com http://nutshell.com — we've got a one-click import tool from Highrise. We're an established, profitable company focused on CRM with gorgeous UI. We're polishing up our new JSON-API-based http://jsonapi.org/ http://jsonapi.org/ REST API, and we've got a well-supported JSON-RPC API published at http://nutshell.com/api http://nutshell.com/api
- owens99 13y ago
  I'm with close.io. Don't work there, just a happy customer.
luigi 13y ago
I predict that GitHub will acquire Campfire.
- joshmlewis 13y ago
  It's definitely possible but I wonder what Githubs strategy long term is and how it would fit into that. While I'm sure there are lot of people that use Campfire at GH (or maybe not), it may not be right for them to take care of and expand.
- robotcookies 13y ago
  But Github is already doing what 37signals is aiming for and that is being a company focused on a single product. I'd think they want to maintain that.
  - unfunco 13y ago
    Whilst GitHub itself is definitely the focus at GitHub, Inc. They also have other products, they have a job board too, and Speaker Deck, and Gauges.
    - chipotle_coyote 13y ago
      They actually sold Gauges to Fastest Forward a couple months ago. Hopefully the new owners will give it some much-needed love; it's pretty, but... let's say unnecessarily minimalist. (If there's a way to get it to give me all the referers in a time period other than day-by-day, for instance, I still haven't figured it out.)
    - timdorr 13y ago
      They sold Gauges: http://fastestforward.com/blog/archives/2013/11/01/fastest-forward-and-gauges-are-bff http://fastestforward.com/blog/archives/2013/11/01/fastest-f...
- michaelbuckbee 13y ago
  My bet was going to be Atlassian. They have the clearest competitor to Campfire (Hipchat), a history of pulling off acquisitions (Bitbucket) and from 37Signals perspective could probably make a better case that they could take care / migrate their customers.
kunle 13y ago
So what happens to the other products?
- joshmlewis 13y ago
  From the blog post it seems they were transitioned into a 'maintenance' mode a couple years ago.
- yefim 13y ago
  Q: If you're going all in on Basecamp, what happens to Campfire and Highrise? In the short term, everything stays the same. Business as usual. No interruption in service, no changes that affect our customers. In the long term, one of three things: SCENARIO 1: We'll spin them off into separate companies where we'll retain partial ownership, but another fully-dedicated team will run the products and own the majority of the company. This would be our ideal situation as it would ensure continuity and no interruption for our customers, but we'd have to find the right entrepreneur/team with the right experience and enough financing to make it work. SCENARIO 2: We'll sell the products outright (either separately or together). The key for us in this scenario is that the products, and our customers, are well looked after. We will not sell either of these products to a company that is planning to shut the products down. And since no one from our team goes with the sale, this is not an acqui-hire situation. We're looking to sell to a company that wants to add well-respected, well-established, profitable, growing products to their portfolio. SCENARIO 3: If we can't find the right partner or buyer, we are committed to continuing to run the products for our existing customers forever. We won't sell the products to new customers, but existing customers can continue to use the products just as they always have. The products will shift into maintenance mode which means there will be no new development, only security updates or minor bug fixes. We did this successfully in 2012 with Ta-da List, Writeboard, and Backpack, so we know how to make it work. If you're a company or team interested in exploring scenario 1 (spin-off) or scenario 2 (outright purchase), please get in touch. Based on current revenues, current growth rates, and a conservative multiple, Campfire will sell in the single digit millions, and Highrise will sell in the tens of millions, so serious inquires only please. Disclosure: We're currently in early discussions with a few interested parties.
joshmlewis 13y ago
I think it's commendable to take this approach. They are doing a few things very right. 1.) Not shutting down existing products and leaving users without a service, 2.) Not wanting to just sell it to the highest bidder but actually are concerned about their users, 3.) Having the guts to just put everything on the table and changing major things up. I feel like a lot of companies feel like, 'Well we have these products we have to either keep them going and scale or kill them.' Their solution here is a wise one that is certainly putting users before dollars and ease. While everyone may not be happy with it, it's certainly better than a lot of shut downs and other moves startups have made that have pissed a lot of people off.
philfreo 13y ago
Big news! We've been big fans of 37signals for a decade or so and in many ways they have inspired us in building Close.io. I love that they are able to make the hard decision to focus on one thing. We want to take great care of any Highrise customers looking for a new home: http://close.io/highrise http://close.io/highrise Check out http://close.io/ http://close.io/ - mention that you were a Highrise customer and I can make sure you'll get a special discount. Close.io is a next-gen sales communication tracking tool with an easy 1-click migration from Highrise, as well as automatic 2-way email syncing, call tracking, etc. See what our customers say at https://www.quora.com/Reviews-of-Close-io https://www.quora.com/Reviews-of-Close-io
- guynamedloren 13y ago
  Your comment implies Highrise is going to disappear - however, that's not the case. They're either going to sell Highrise (to a buyer who is committed to keeping it running + growing) or continue to run it themselves in maintenance mode.
  - philfreo 13y ago
    I don't think it's going to disappear, but I do think many customers will consider alternatives when it's clear the original designers are no longer onboard with the product anymore. Highrise was an amazing product years ago, but let's face it, Highrise has almost been abandoned for the past couple years at least. Could a new owner take over and revamp it to be amazing? It's possible, but not the common outcome of acquisitions.
  - FireBeyond 13y ago
    If the tech world could survive on the promises of companies that have done acquisitions and "committed to keeping [a product] running + growing"... ... well, the web would be a very different place than it is now.
- Xorlev 13y ago
  Hey guys, Your navbar links don't seem work on your Highrise page.
aresant 13y ago
1999 founded. 2004 first product launched. 5 years after the company and team came together. 5 years of time to hone the skills and struggle. Oh yah, and another 10 years to grow to 43 people. Simple reminder of the commitment to patience it can actually take to build a remarkable business.
- quickpost 13y ago
  Gives all us bootstrappers some hope after all! It certainly gave me some.
- craigmccaskill 13y ago
  They were a consulting company initially, not really focused on finding and building a product.
- eps 13y ago
  What struggle? They were formed to design websites and that's what they did for 5 years. Though I guess you can view web design as a "struggle" with all that IE6 testing and what not, but some people really enjoy it :)
  - girvo 13y ago
    but some people really enjoy it Who. 0_o
    - porker 13y ago
      These: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7012822 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7012822
    - tripzilch 13y ago
      I used to love battling with IE6 to get a webdesign looking great, cross-browser compatible and degrading gracefully. Ok it was maybe more like love+hate, it was a challenge, a puzzle and particularly trying to solve it in the least (subjectively) "hackish" way possible. But then, I also used to write 4096 byte demos in x86 asm. And a bunch of other crazy things that don't even occur to me now, some things with JS ...
jhonovich 13y ago
"Based on current revenues, current growth rates, and a conservative multiple, Campfire will sell in the single digit millions, and Highrise will sell in the tens of millions" Anyone care to take a guess to what Campfire and Highrise revenue? What type of multiple of revenue do they expect to get?
- sutterbomb 13y ago
  I'd guess a 6x multiple of revenue, considering their sales, staffing and acquisition models. (I.e. no-touch, low-overhead, referral/word of mouth.) [Addendum] Perhaps 6x was extremely low given the current market. Need to update my priors: http://tomtunguz.com/saas-valuation-bubble/ http://tomtunguz.com/saas-valuation-bubble/
notastartup 13y ago
37 Signals is the reason I started learning how to make web apps. They are really the poster child of successful independent software vendors. Not focusing on burning investors cash but growing as a profitable business. One can only dream to match their level of success.
gkoberger 13y ago
Very interesting announcement. I'm sure they're making the right decision, and I'm even more sure they did a ton of user testing. However, it's weird to lose the 37 Signals brand. I actually don't like Basecamp as a product, but I love 37 Signals. I treat their books like a bible, and read their blog posts religiously. Somehow, they seemed like more like a philosophy than just a product, and Basecamp (and Rails and their books) were a side effect. I know it's the same people and nothing will really change (A rose by any other name...), but it's still so weird to me to lose 37 Signals.
- AVTizzle 13y ago
  Exactly how I feel. 2 years ago, I watched DHH's Startup School presentation on YouTube, and it completely changed the way I perceived what a "startup" could be. Today, my partner and I are recently ramen profitable on our first SaaS product, and growing. It's extremely exciting - we're seeing the fruits of a project that we love actually paying our bills. "Exciting" probably isn't even the right word... we're building our way to financial freedom and liberation from the rat race. Our business is our livelihood now, and you can find evidence of 37Signal's influence in every nook and cranny of it. Their writings and philosophy have affected our business and our lives deeply, so a deep emotional connection to the name is an obvious consequence. It feels funny, but as Jason clearly alludes to at the end of the post, a lot of their moves have. I'm looking forward to following along as the future of Basecamp unfolds.
- doodilin 13y ago
  Though I share your sentiments about losing the 37Signals name, their philsophy remains the same and I have high hopes that this change will result in an even better Basecamp!
- matthewrudy 13y ago
  I agree, I actually don't use any 37signals products. Basecamp doesn't work for how I organise projects, and Campfire is a poor competitor to HipChat. But I frequently point to them as an example of how to run a company. And they know their customers really well. I guess I'm just not one of their customers.
athaeryn 13y ago
So uh... is this going to be a problem? https://twitter.com/basecamp https://twitter.com/basecamp
- guynamedloren 13y ago
  No, it won't be a problem.. I'm sure they're already talking to Twitter about it. I heard something along the lines of accounts inactive for 6 months can be seized by Twitter.
- thiele 13y ago
  If the account hasn't been active for 6 months (which appears to be the case) Basecamp may be able to get the handle. Policy: https://support.twitter.com/articles/15362-inactive-account-policy https://support.twitter.com/articles/15362-inactive-account-...
  - johns 13y ago
    The last I heard, it needed to be entirely dormant (meaning not a single log in) for 30 months in order to be eligible to transfer. Though they might have a trademark claim that would likely help.
karolisd 13y ago
So, what about Basecamp Classic? That's something they won't sell to another company, but is it something they'll continue supporting? I'd imagine it's simple to maintain.
- codezero 13y ago
  FAQ at the bottom of the article says: Q: What about Basecamp Classic? We are fully committed to running Basecamp Classic forever. As long as we're around, Basecamp Classic will be around. A large chunk of our customer base loves Classic and we'll make sure they'll always have their Classic. The same rigorous uptime standards of Basecamp also apply to Basecamp Classic. Background: Basecamp Classic was the original version of Basecamp we launched in 2004. Then in 2012 we released the all new version of Basecamp. Customers had the choice to stay on the old version, transition to the new version, or use both.
- Tehnix 13y ago
  In the Q&A section (I didn't see it at first myself) >We are fully committed to running Basecamp Classic forever. As long as we're around, Basecamp Classic will be around.
bluefreeze 13y ago
Am I the first person who realized "Signal vs. Noise" blog move to http://signalvnoise.com/ http://signalvnoise.com/?
Smrchy 13y ago
We are still using the old Basecamp version because time tracking didn't make it into the relaunched version. Maybe you guys add time tracking now?
guynamedloren 13y ago
From the FAQ: > Based on current revenues, current growth rates, and a conservative multiple, Campfire will sell in the single digit millions, and Highrise will sell in the tens of millions. Amazing that those products are doing so well and they've largely been on autopilot for the past few years. This info + the switch to focus on Basecamp can only mean that they're making an absolute killing with Basecamp.
math0ne 13y ago
This is really cool. I love basecamp and have been a daily user since close to day one. However their maintaining legacy basecamp in parallel to new basecamp seems to make even less sense to me now then it did then. It seems to me if the transition process between the two could have been smoother they could have got all their users on board for the upgrade. I'm really hoping that as part of their renewed efforts with basecamp they might re-address people that are stuck in basecamp classic due to the much less than smooth upragde process.
wellactually 13y ago
It's "37signals."
- tharri 13y ago
  Actually, it's Basecamp.
lachlanj 13y ago
Based on the lack of attention the new Basecamp has gotten after launch, this is incentive enough for me to more to a new project management tool. The only real incentive to say was the very minor integration with Highrise
midas007 13y ago
Docker-like move: it's good to be focused on what is popular AND makes net $.
usablebytes 13y ago
Hats off to the simplicity and focus these guys have. I have loved and admired this company over years. These announcements have only added more respect for them.
midas007 13y ago
There are so many project management apps out there, the competition is fierce. For a proj mgmt app to succeed, there either has to be USP and massive value. For example, Asana is especially good. I haven't tried Basecamp recently but it wasn't as lightweight, low-cost and nice as Asana.
- veidr 13y ago
  I am extremely interested in this space, both as a user and as a developer[1]. As it happens, I use (and pay for) both Asana and Basecamp. I use Asana internally with my own staff, and I use Basecamp externally with clients. My clients tend to be non-technical businesses with custom software needs -- and most of them would be like "WHAT. THE. FUCK. HELLLP~!" if I asked them to use Asana. Keyboard shortcuts, context menus, sliding popovers, disclosure widgets, multiple views onto the same data/work-graph, aiiiighhhhh! On the other hand, Basecamp has really nailed their niche -- the project management app that really is simple enough for 'average folks'. Making that choice completely alienates the tech-savvy power user that most of their competitors seem to be targeting (e.g. Flow, Wrike, Teamwork PM, Azendoo, Dooster, Teambox, TeamLab, Do.com, FMYI, to name just a few that I have evaluated and rejected). Which 37Signals, oops I mean Basecamp, is obviously OK with, given Basecamp's massive user base and success. Basecamp is a pretty cool software story, and actually a pretty cool piece of software, even though it is too limited and underpowered for me to use it as my own primary project manager. [1] I develop software (among other roles) for a living, but I develop project-management web app software mostly just in my fantasies and rage-imagination... spending many hours in a week in these apps really makes a person want to develop the One True Project Management app, though.
  - HarveyKandola 13y ago
    It's not easy building that project-management app that is usable by both geeks and customers. We (http://countersoft.com http://countersoft.com) are pushing the approach of a single tool for both project tracking (geeks) and ticketing (customers). It's not easy to say the least because customers love to just do everything in email!
jaxomlotus 13y ago
1) I never understood the odd trend of having a jpeg of a handwritten signature included in a digital email. A signature is supposed to designate authenticity, but a letter on a authenticated website is inherently authentic. So it's forced, and decorative. And makes me think the author is trying too hard. 2) I respect Jason very much and think this decision is the right one from a consumer perspective. If they are only going to make one product going forward (which is the right decision), there's no need for a separate company brand. Good call by them - and no doubt a difficult one to make.
caiob 13y ago
bold move.
sandeepmzr 13y ago
Appreciate that 37signals is moving on.
chriskottom 13y ago
Seems like a weird strategy. I admire the focus shown, but what if Thomas Edison had decided after 10 years to rebrand GE as Something Something Light Bulbs, Inc?
- rimantas 13y ago
  If all they were making would be light bulbs, why not? RIM rebranded to BlackBerry (though RIP may have been a better choice :( ).
howradical 13y ago
Brilliant. 37signals inspired a generation of developers, nearly every modern web framework and dozens of direct competitors. Makes complete sense to double down on their biggest winner. Many people talk about cutting, simplifying, focus, editing - but few people and even fewer companies follow through on it.
nppc 13y ago
Some how reading all this Sounds like Jason is envious of Evernote on some level.
Houshalter 13y ago
Extremely vague useless title.
Uchikoma 13y ago
Great success. Though my guess is all the people who applauded 37signals for their product strategy, will now again applaud 37signals. And there will be a book "The One Product Company".
joshfraser 13y ago
Surprised they didn't do this sooner.
dror 13y ago
We use basecamp and campfire at work. Basecamp is mediocre, not horrible and not great. Campfire sucks compared to similar tools that I've used in the past. Seems to me that they've been successful mostly because of their involvement in the Ruby and startup world, rather than making great products. Nothing wrong with that, but it's good to be clear about the distinction between a company that makes great product and a company that's good at marketing itself.
- girvo 13y ago
  A lot of people (myself included) would disagree with you there. The fact that they can afford to do something like the OP is announcing is sort of proving that... I've not used any project management tool that I've liked as much as Basecamp, and I've used heaps of them. Campfire is pretty bad though, yeah.
  - FireBeyond 13y ago
    That doesn't really make sense to me - "they can afford to shutter their other products" (or rather, spin them off) because of how good they are? Or, rather, that there's no significant loss to them due to shuttering, because of the (relative) lack of use. That said, spinning off would be the -wise- idea. Most likely they'll find a good amount from a buyer based on the name and reputation.
- stock_toaster 13y ago
  I would agree that campfire, the web app, is lacking. However, there are some pretty decent "apps" that you can use. I use and like flint[1]. [1]: http://giantcomet.com/flint/mac/ http://giantcomet.com/flint/mac/
- theknown99 13y ago
  It was also a pretty dick move when they complained after someone (from Google?) reimplemented campfire in a day, and made them take it down. If your entire product can be copied in a day, it's probably not that great.
  - 13y ago
bowlofpetunias 13y ago
Understandable move, focus on the one big product. And as far as company name is concerned, nobody outside our tech bubble has ever heard of "37 Signals". The Q & A does highlight the reality distortion field around the cult-like status of 37 Signals though: > Q: This is a really unusual strategy (..) No. No it isn't. But if Jason Fried claims it is, I'm sure that will be echo-ed on HN. (Not trying to be super negative, I consider 37 Signals a major source of inspiration, and I'm a Basecamp user.)
girvo 13y ago
Now, a question. If your business has a great product, is it the best idea to follow Basecamp nee 37Signal's trajectory? In other words, build those other products, then later consolidate? Or take the GitHub route and stick to (basically) one awesome product and leave it at that? I wonder what's a better choice? I lean towards the latter personally.
PhilipA 13y ago
Am I the only one who doesn't get why Basecamp is praised so much? I think it is okay, but nothing exceptionally. Also if I didn't knew the product, I would never signup when looking at the frontpage, it looks very outdated, and not very trustworthy. Hopefully a better focus, will make the experience more up-to-date.
- Myrmornis 13y ago
  Agree with that, I didn't really know what it was before this article, just looked at the website and can't imagine companies being attracted by it.
- adrianhoward 13y ago
  " I would never signup when looking at the frontpage, it looks very outdated, and not very trustworthy. Hopefully a better focus, will make the experience more up-to-date." Almost certainly a sign that you're not the target market for basecamp. They do a lot of testing on their landing pages (see http://signalvnoise.com/posts/2991-behind-the-scenes-ab-testing-part-3-final http://signalvnoise.com/posts/2991-behind-the-scenes-ab-test... for example.)
matthewmacleod 13y ago
It's a good idea for them to take the plunge and do this, because it pretty much just aligns their official strategy and brand with their actual strategy. Campfire hasn't seen an update in forever, and the rest of the ecosystem also felt like it was already in maintainable mode. We already migrated away to Hipchat as a result, and I get the impression that others might have been doing the same.
noelwelsh 13y ago
Interesting. I always saw 37Signals as a good example of a diversified portfolio. I notice they're going to keep the side projects (books, job board) which probably have the highest margins and require very little ongoing investment of mental energy. I don't see where the growth in Basecamp is going to come from, but then I don't use the product (tried it once, too limited.) Also, did Jason Fried step out of a time machine with his IBM Selectric typewriter to compose this? 37Signals have always been on the hipster end of things but the design of this letter is ridiculously so.
- tripzilch 13y ago
  > Also, did Jason Fried step out of a time machine with his IBM Selectric typewriter to compose this? 37Signals have always been on the hipster end of things but the design of this letter is ridiculously so. I gotta admit, while it's the content of the article that has 99% of my interest (going to miss the "37signals" name, but it sounds like they know exactly what they're doing, so good for them!), I did also pause and wonder about the Courier font as well as the "scribbly" version of the Basecamp logo. But then, that's me, and sometimes a font is just a font? :)
ksec 13y ago
I really like 37signals, for Ruby, Rails or basically their taste for tech and their startup culture / their books. But none of their product really catches me. They are from ok to very good. But not great. Actually Basecamp was the only very good one. Preferring Trello or Pivotal Tracker.
wgx 13y ago
My hunch - as I was reading - was that the second announcement would be that they'd open-source the other products.. I was wrong.
timedoctor 13y ago
HOw is having two versions of Basecamp (old and new) simplification? Also I think Asana is beating Basecamp in terms of having both simplicity and power, although I would say that the Basecamp UI is more simple than Asana, Asana is a lot faster and a lot more powerful and Asana is free for up to 15 users. I think Asana will take a lot of business away from Basecamp over the long term. Having said that, in our business we use Jira, Asana and Basecamp (part of the reason for using all 3 is that we integrate our product with them). We keep Baecamp as a central repository of information and for that purpose Asana is not really as well suited. For task management, Asana is way better than Basecamp.
- midas007 13y ago
  Asana is really good. There are very few surprises and it seems to just get out of your way.
inthewoods 13y ago
I started a software company years ago with three friends. We had some good success. We then saw an opportunity to start another product that was adjacent to Photoshop - basically a tool to improve Photoshop productivity. We moved most of our engineering team to focus on this product. Then Adobe built the functionality we provided right into the product, and our entire installed base moved to that. Meanwhile, we had neglected our core product and customers had become frustrated with the lack of progress and were moving onto other tools. I tell this story because I wonder if this is what happened with 37Signals/Basecamp.
deanpeterson 13y ago
They did this for another reason as well. They can't grow past 50 employees or they will have to pay through the nose for Obamacare. If they continue to grow, they would inevitably require more staff besides developers that need expensive healthcare. Obamacare is a great way to keep small companies small.

342 points by jboynyc 13y ago

Congrats on figuring it out and having a clear focus, but also to trying a lot of things over the years and figuring out what works. And thank you for being so responsible with the future of your legacy products. There are too many companies that are too happy to simply shut down things as soon as ROI numbers don't line up. Here's to the future.

tyrelb 13y ago

And I was just about to integrate Highrise into my app...moving on! Any suggestions on a Highrise competitor that is stable, etc.?

aefeuer 13y ago
We're big fans of Pipedrive
zingui 13y ago
We just finished moving or old CRM to Highrise. I hope that someone acquires and keep updating the product.
philfreo 13y ago
Give us a shot... http://close.io/ http://close.io/ We've also got an easy migration tool for any existing Highrise users: http://close.io/highrise http://close.io/highrise and a solid REST API http://developer.close.io/ http://developer.close.io/
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
randall 13y ago
We use Capsule + Streak. We're big fans of streak, but it's a baby CRM perfect for pipelines... we use Capsule to manage all of the other stuff. (Who talked to whom, etc.)
andyfowler 13y ago
Check us out at http://nutshell.com http://nutshell.com — we've got a one-click import tool from Highrise. We're an established, profitable company focused on CRM with gorgeous UI. We're polishing up our new JSON-API-based http://jsonapi.org/ http://jsonapi.org/ REST API, and we've got a well-supported JSON-RPC API published at http://nutshell.com/api http://nutshell.com/api
owens99 13y ago
I'm with close.io. Don't work there, just a happy customer.

luigi 13y ago

I predict that GitHub will acquire Campfire.

joshmlewis 13y ago
It's definitely possible but I wonder what Githubs strategy long term is and how it would fit into that. While I'm sure there are lot of people that use Campfire at GH (or maybe not), it may not be right for them to take care of and expand.
robotcookies 13y ago
But Github is already doing what 37signals is aiming for and that is being a company focused on a single product. I'd think they want to maintain that.
- unfunco 13y ago
  Whilst GitHub itself is definitely the focus at GitHub, Inc. They also have other products, they have a job board too, and Speaker Deck, and Gauges.
  - chipotle_coyote 13y ago
    They actually sold Gauges to Fastest Forward a couple months ago. Hopefully the new owners will give it some much-needed love; it's pretty, but... let's say unnecessarily minimalist. (If there's a way to get it to give me all the referers in a time period other than day-by-day, for instance, I still haven't figured it out.)
  - timdorr 13y ago
    They sold Gauges: http://fastestforward.com/blog/archives/2013/11/01/fastest-forward-and-gauges-are-bff http://fastestforward.com/blog/archives/2013/11/01/fastest-f...
michaelbuckbee 13y ago
My bet was going to be Atlassian. They have the clearest competitor to Campfire (Hipchat), a history of pulling off acquisitions (Bitbucket) and from 37Signals perspective could probably make a better case that they could take care / migrate their customers.

kunle 13y ago

So what happens to the other products?

joshmlewis 13y ago
From the blog post it seems they were transitioned into a 'maintenance' mode a couple years ago.
yefim 13y ago
Q: If you're going all in on Basecamp, what happens to Campfire and Highrise? In the short term, everything stays the same. Business as usual. No interruption in service, no changes that affect our customers. In the long term, one of three things: SCENARIO 1: We'll spin them off into separate companies where we'll retain partial ownership, but another fully-dedicated team will run the products and own the majority of the company. This would be our ideal situation as it would ensure continuity and no interruption for our customers, but we'd have to find the right entrepreneur/team with the right experience and enough financing to make it work. SCENARIO 2: We'll sell the products outright (either separately or together). The key for us in this scenario is that the products, and our customers, are well looked after. We will not sell either of these products to a company that is planning to shut the products down. And since no one from our team goes with the sale, this is not an acqui-hire situation. We're looking to sell to a company that wants to add well-respected, well-established, profitable, growing products to their portfolio. SCENARIO 3: If we can't find the right partner or buyer, we are committed to continuing to run the products for our existing customers forever. We won't sell the products to new customers, but existing customers can continue to use the products just as they always have. The products will shift into maintenance mode which means there will be no new development, only security updates or minor bug fixes. We did this successfully in 2012 with Ta-da List, Writeboard, and Backpack, so we know how to make it work. If you're a company or team interested in exploring scenario 1 (spin-off) or scenario 2 (outright purchase), please get in touch. Based on current revenues, current growth rates, and a conservative multiple, Campfire will sell in the single digit millions, and Highrise will sell in the tens of millions, so serious inquires only please. Disclosure: We're currently in early discussions with a few interested parties.

joshmlewis 13y ago

I think it's commendable to take this approach. They are doing a few things very right. 1.) Not shutting down existing products and leaving users without a service, 2.) Not wanting to just sell it to the highest bidder but actually are concerned about their users, 3.) Having the guts to just put everything on the table and changing major things up. I feel like a lot of companies feel like, 'Well we have these products we have to either keep them going and scale or kill them.' Their solution here is a wise one that is certainly putting users before dollars and ease. While everyone may not be happy with it, it's certainly better than a lot of shut downs and other moves startups have made that have pissed a lot of people off.

philfreo 13y ago

Big news! We've been big fans of 37signals for a decade or so and in many ways they have inspired us in building Close.io. I love that they are able to make the hard decision to focus on one thing. We want to take great care of any Highrise customers looking for a new home: http://close.io/highrise http://close.io/highrise Check out http://close.io/ http://close.io/ - mention that you were a Highrise customer and I can make sure you'll get a special discount. Close.io is a next-gen sales communication tracking tool with an easy 1-click migration from Highrise, as well as automatic 2-way email syncing, call tracking, etc. See what our customers say at https://www.quora.com/Reviews-of-Close-io https://www.quora.com/Reviews-of-Close-io

guynamedloren 13y ago
Your comment implies Highrise is going to disappear - however, that's not the case. They're either going to sell Highrise (to a buyer who is committed to keeping it running + growing) or continue to run it themselves in maintenance mode.
- philfreo 13y ago
  I don't think it's going to disappear, but I do think many customers will consider alternatives when it's clear the original designers are no longer onboard with the product anymore. Highrise was an amazing product years ago, but let's face it, Highrise has almost been abandoned for the past couple years at least. Could a new owner take over and revamp it to be amazing? It's possible, but not the common outcome of acquisitions.
- FireBeyond 13y ago
  If the tech world could survive on the promises of companies that have done acquisitions and "committed to keeping [a product] running + growing"... ... well, the web would be a very different place than it is now.
Xorlev 13y ago
Hey guys, Your navbar links don't seem work on your Highrise page.

aresant 13y ago

1999 founded. 2004 first product launched. 5 years after the company and team came together. 5 years of time to hone the skills and struggle. Oh yah, and another 10 years to grow to 43 people. Simple reminder of the commitment to patience it can actually take to build a remarkable business.

quickpost 13y ago
Gives all us bootstrappers some hope after all! It certainly gave me some.
craigmccaskill 13y ago
They were a consulting company initially, not really focused on finding and building a product.
eps 13y ago
What struggle? They were formed to design websites and that's what they did for 5 years. Though I guess you can view web design as a "struggle" with all that IE6 testing and what not, but some people really enjoy it :)
- girvo 13y ago
  but some people really enjoy it Who. 0_o
  - porker 13y ago
    These: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7012822 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7012822
  - tripzilch 13y ago
    I used to love battling with IE6 to get a webdesign looking great, cross-browser compatible and degrading gracefully. Ok it was maybe more like love+hate, it was a challenge, a puzzle and particularly trying to solve it in the least (subjectively) "hackish" way possible. But then, I also used to write 4096 byte demos in x86 asm. And a bunch of other crazy things that don't even occur to me now, some things with JS ...

jhonovich 13y ago

"Based on current revenues, current growth rates, and a conservative multiple, Campfire will sell in the single digit millions, and Highrise will sell in the tens of millions" Anyone care to take a guess to what Campfire and Highrise revenue? What type of multiple of revenue do they expect to get?

sutterbomb 13y ago
I'd guess a 6x multiple of revenue, considering their sales, staffing and acquisition models. (I.e. no-touch, low-overhead, referral/word of mouth.) [Addendum] Perhaps 6x was extremely low given the current market. Need to update my priors: http://tomtunguz.com/saas-valuation-bubble/ http://tomtunguz.com/saas-valuation-bubble/

notastartup 13y ago

37 Signals is the reason I started learning how to make web apps. They are really the poster child of successful independent software vendors. Not focusing on burning investors cash but growing as a profitable business. One can only dream to match their level of success.

gkoberger 13y ago

Very interesting announcement. I'm sure they're making the right decision, and I'm even more sure they did a ton of user testing. However, it's weird to lose the 37 Signals brand. I actually don't like Basecamp as a product, but I love 37 Signals. I treat their books like a bible, and read their blog posts religiously. Somehow, they seemed like more like a philosophy than just a product, and Basecamp (and Rails and their books) were a side effect. I know it's the same people and nothing will really change (A rose by any other name...), but it's still so weird to me to lose 37 Signals.

AVTizzle 13y ago
Exactly how I feel. 2 years ago, I watched DHH's Startup School presentation on YouTube, and it completely changed the way I perceived what a "startup" could be. Today, my partner and I are recently ramen profitable on our first SaaS product, and growing. It's extremely exciting - we're seeing the fruits of a project that we love actually paying our bills. "Exciting" probably isn't even the right word... we're building our way to financial freedom and liberation from the rat race. Our business is our livelihood now, and you can find evidence of 37Signal's influence in every nook and cranny of it. Their writings and philosophy have affected our business and our lives deeply, so a deep emotional connection to the name is an obvious consequence. It feels funny, but as Jason clearly alludes to at the end of the post, a lot of their moves have. I'm looking forward to following along as the future of Basecamp unfolds.
doodilin 13y ago
Though I share your sentiments about losing the 37Signals name, their philsophy remains the same and I have high hopes that this change will result in an even better Basecamp!
matthewrudy 13y ago
I agree, I actually don't use any 37signals products. Basecamp doesn't work for how I organise projects, and Campfire is a poor competitor to HipChat. But I frequently point to them as an example of how to run a company. And they know their customers really well. I guess I'm just not one of their customers.

athaeryn 13y ago

So uh... is this going to be a problem? https://twitter.com/basecamp https://twitter.com/basecamp

guynamedloren 13y ago
No, it won't be a problem.. I'm sure they're already talking to Twitter about it. I heard something along the lines of accounts inactive for 6 months can be seized by Twitter.
thiele 13y ago
If the account hasn't been active for 6 months (which appears to be the case) Basecamp may be able to get the handle. Policy: https://support.twitter.com/articles/15362-inactive-account-policy https://support.twitter.com/articles/15362-inactive-account-...
- johns 13y ago
  The last I heard, it needed to be entirely dormant (meaning not a single log in) for 30 months in order to be eligible to transfer. Though they might have a trademark claim that would likely help.

karolisd 13y ago

So, what about Basecamp Classic? That's something they won't sell to another company, but is it something they'll continue supporting? I'd imagine it's simple to maintain.

codezero 13y ago
FAQ at the bottom of the article says: Q: What about Basecamp Classic? We are fully committed to running Basecamp Classic forever. As long as we're around, Basecamp Classic will be around. A large chunk of our customer base loves Classic and we'll make sure they'll always have their Classic. The same rigorous uptime standards of Basecamp also apply to Basecamp Classic. Background: Basecamp Classic was the original version of Basecamp we launched in 2004. Then in 2012 we released the all new version of Basecamp. Customers had the choice to stay on the old version, transition to the new version, or use both.
Tehnix 13y ago
In the Q&A section (I didn't see it at first myself) >We are fully committed to running Basecamp Classic forever. As long as we're around, Basecamp Classic will be around.

bluefreeze 13y ago

Am I the first person who realized "Signal vs. Noise" blog move to http://signalvnoise.com/ http://signalvnoise.com/?

Smrchy 13y ago

We are still using the old Basecamp version because time tracking didn't make it into the relaunched version. Maybe you guys add time tracking now?

guynamedloren 13y ago

From the FAQ: > Based on current revenues, current growth rates, and a conservative multiple, Campfire will sell in the single digit millions, and Highrise will sell in the tens of millions. Amazing that those products are doing so well and they've largely been on autopilot for the past few years. This info + the switch to focus on Basecamp can only mean that they're making an absolute killing with Basecamp.

math0ne 13y ago

This is really cool. I love basecamp and have been a daily user since close to day one. However their maintaining legacy basecamp in parallel to new basecamp seems to make even less sense to me now then it did then. It seems to me if the transition process between the two could have been smoother they could have got all their users on board for the upgrade. I'm really hoping that as part of their renewed efforts with basecamp they might re-address people that are stuck in basecamp classic due to the much less than smooth upragde process.

wellactually 13y ago

It's "37signals."

tharri 13y ago
Actually, it's Basecamp.

lachlanj 13y ago

Based on the lack of attention the new Basecamp has gotten after launch, this is incentive enough for me to more to a new project management tool. The only real incentive to say was the very minor integration with Highrise

midas007 13y ago

Docker-like move: it's good to be focused on what is popular AND makes net $.

usablebytes 13y ago

Hats off to the simplicity and focus these guys have. I have loved and admired this company over years. These announcements have only added more respect for them.

midas007 13y ago

There are so many project management apps out there, the competition is fierce. For a proj mgmt app to succeed, there either has to be USP and massive value. For example, Asana is especially good. I haven't tried Basecamp recently but it wasn't as lightweight, low-cost and nice as Asana.

veidr 13y ago
I am extremely interested in this space, both as a user and as a developer[1]. As it happens, I use (and pay for) both Asana and Basecamp. I use Asana internally with my own staff, and I use Basecamp externally with clients. My clients tend to be non-technical businesses with custom software needs -- and most of them would be like "WHAT. THE. FUCK. HELLLP~!" if I asked them to use Asana. Keyboard shortcuts, context menus, sliding popovers, disclosure widgets, multiple views onto the same data/work-graph, aiiiighhhhh! On the other hand, Basecamp has really nailed their niche -- the project management app that really is simple enough for 'average folks'. Making that choice completely alienates the tech-savvy power user that most of their competitors seem to be targeting (e.g. Flow, Wrike, Teamwork PM, Azendoo, Dooster, Teambox, TeamLab, Do.com, FMYI, to name just a few that I have evaluated and rejected). Which 37Signals, oops I mean Basecamp, is obviously OK with, given Basecamp's massive user base and success. Basecamp is a pretty cool software story, and actually a pretty cool piece of software, even though it is too limited and underpowered for me to use it as my own primary project manager. [1] I develop software (among other roles) for a living, but I develop project-management web app software mostly just in my fantasies and rage-imagination... spending many hours in a week in these apps really makes a person want to develop the One True Project Management app, though.
- HarveyKandola 13y ago
  It's not easy building that project-management app that is usable by both geeks and customers. We (http://countersoft.com http://countersoft.com) are pushing the approach of a single tool for both project tracking (geeks) and ticketing (customers). It's not easy to say the least because customers love to just do everything in email!

jaxomlotus 13y ago

1) I never understood the odd trend of having a jpeg of a handwritten signature included in a digital email. A signature is supposed to designate authenticity, but a letter on a authenticated website is inherently authentic. So it's forced, and decorative. And makes me think the author is trying too hard. 2) I respect Jason very much and think this decision is the right one from a consumer perspective. If they are only going to make one product going forward (which is the right decision), there's no need for a separate company brand. Good call by them - and no doubt a difficult one to make.

caiob 13y ago

bold move.

sandeepmzr 13y ago

Appreciate that 37signals is moving on.

chriskottom 13y ago

Seems like a weird strategy. I admire the focus shown, but what if Thomas Edison had decided after 10 years to rebrand GE as Something Something Light Bulbs, Inc?

rimantas 13y ago
If all they were making would be light bulbs, why not? RIM rebranded to BlackBerry (though RIP may have been a better choice :( ).

howradical 13y ago

Brilliant. 37signals inspired a generation of developers, nearly every modern web framework and dozens of direct competitors. Makes complete sense to double down on their biggest winner. Many people talk about cutting, simplifying, focus, editing - but few people and even fewer companies follow through on it.

nppc 13y ago

Some how reading all this Sounds like Jason is envious of Evernote on some level.

Houshalter 13y ago

Extremely vague useless title.

Uchikoma 13y ago

Great success. Though my guess is all the people who applauded 37signals for their product strategy, will now again applaud 37signals. And there will be a book "The One Product Company".

joshfraser 13y ago

Surprised they didn't do this sooner.

dror 13y ago

We use basecamp and campfire at work. Basecamp is mediocre, not horrible and not great. Campfire sucks compared to similar tools that I've used in the past. Seems to me that they've been successful mostly because of their involvement in the Ruby and startup world, rather than making great products. Nothing wrong with that, but it's good to be clear about the distinction between a company that makes great product and a company that's good at marketing itself.

girvo 13y ago
A lot of people (myself included) would disagree with you there. The fact that they can afford to do something like the OP is announcing is sort of proving that... I've not used any project management tool that I've liked as much as Basecamp, and I've used heaps of them. Campfire is pretty bad though, yeah.
- FireBeyond 13y ago
  That doesn't really make sense to me - "they can afford to shutter their other products" (or rather, spin them off) because of how good they are? Or, rather, that there's no significant loss to them due to shuttering, because of the (relative) lack of use. That said, spinning off would be the -wise- idea. Most likely they'll find a good amount from a buyer based on the name and reputation.
stock_toaster 13y ago
I would agree that campfire, the web app, is lacking. However, there are some pretty decent "apps" that you can use. I use and like flint[1]. [1]: http://giantcomet.com/flint/mac/ http://giantcomet.com/flint/mac/
theknown99 13y ago
It was also a pretty dick move when they complained after someone (from Google?) reimplemented campfire in a day, and made them take it down. If your entire product can be copied in a day, it's probably not that great.
- 13y ago

bowlofpetunias 13y ago

Understandable move, focus on the one big product. And as far as company name is concerned, nobody outside our tech bubble has ever heard of "37 Signals". The Q & A does highlight the reality distortion field around the cult-like status of 37 Signals though: > Q: This is a really unusual strategy (..) No. No it isn't. But if Jason Fried claims it is, I'm sure that will be echo-ed on HN. (Not trying to be super negative, I consider 37 Signals a major source of inspiration, and I'm a Basecamp user.)

girvo 13y ago

Now, a question. If your business has a great product, is it the best idea to follow Basecamp nee 37Signal's trajectory? In other words, build those other products, then later consolidate? Or take the GitHub route and stick to (basically) one awesome product and leave it at that? I wonder what's a better choice? I lean towards the latter personally.

PhilipA 13y ago

Am I the only one who doesn't get why Basecamp is praised so much? I think it is okay, but nothing exceptionally. Also if I didn't knew the product, I would never signup when looking at the frontpage, it looks very outdated, and not very trustworthy. Hopefully a better focus, will make the experience more up-to-date.

Myrmornis 13y ago
Agree with that, I didn't really know what it was before this article, just looked at the website and can't imagine companies being attracted by it.
adrianhoward 13y ago
" I would never signup when looking at the frontpage, it looks very outdated, and not very trustworthy. Hopefully a better focus, will make the experience more up-to-date." Almost certainly a sign that you're not the target market for basecamp. They do a lot of testing on their landing pages (see http://signalvnoise.com/posts/2991-behind-the-scenes-ab-testing-part-3-final http://signalvnoise.com/posts/2991-behind-the-scenes-ab-test... for example.)

matthewmacleod 13y ago

It's a good idea for them to take the plunge and do this, because it pretty much just aligns their official strategy and brand with their actual strategy. Campfire hasn't seen an update in forever, and the rest of the ecosystem also felt like it was already in maintainable mode. We already migrated away to Hipchat as a result, and I get the impression that others might have been doing the same.

noelwelsh 13y ago

Interesting. I always saw 37Signals as a good example of a diversified portfolio. I notice they're going to keep the side projects (books, job board) which probably have the highest margins and require very little ongoing investment of mental energy. I don't see where the growth in Basecamp is going to come from, but then I don't use the product (tried it once, too limited.) Also, did Jason Fried step out of a time machine with his IBM Selectric typewriter to compose this? 37Signals have always been on the hipster end of things but the design of this letter is ridiculously so.

tripzilch 13y ago
> Also, did Jason Fried step out of a time machine with his IBM Selectric typewriter to compose this? 37Signals have always been on the hipster end of things but the design of this letter is ridiculously so. I gotta admit, while it's the content of the article that has 99% of my interest (going to miss the "37signals" name, but it sounds like they know exactly what they're doing, so good for them!), I did also pause and wonder about the Courier font as well as the "scribbly" version of the Basecamp logo. But then, that's me, and sometimes a font is just a font? :)

ksec 13y ago

I really like 37signals, for Ruby, Rails or basically their taste for tech and their startup culture / their books. But none of their product really catches me. They are from ok to very good. But not great. Actually Basecamp was the only very good one. Preferring Trello or Pivotal Tracker.

wgx 13y ago

My hunch - as I was reading - was that the second announcement would be that they'd open-source the other products.. I was wrong.

timedoctor 13y ago

HOw is having two versions of Basecamp (old and new) simplification? Also I think Asana is beating Basecamp in terms of having both simplicity and power, although I would say that the Basecamp UI is more simple than Asana, Asana is a lot faster and a lot more powerful and Asana is free for up to 15 users. I think Asana will take a lot of business away from Basecamp over the long term. Having said that, in our business we use Jira, Asana and Basecamp (part of the reason for using all 3 is that we integrate our product with them). We keep Baecamp as a central repository of information and for that purpose Asana is not really as well suited. For task management, Asana is way better than Basecamp.

midas007 13y ago
Asana is really good. There are very few surprises and it seems to just get out of your way.

inthewoods 13y ago

I started a software company years ago with three friends. We had some good success. We then saw an opportunity to start another product that was adjacent to Photoshop - basically a tool to improve Photoshop productivity. We moved most of our engineering team to focus on this product. Then Adobe built the functionality we provided right into the product, and our entire installed base moved to that. Meanwhile, we had neglected our core product and customers had become frustrated with the lack of progress and were moving onto other tools. I tell this story because I wonder if this is what happened with 37Signals/Basecamp.

deanpeterson 13y ago

They did this for another reason as well. They can't grow past 50 employees or they will have to pay through the nose for Obamacare. If they continue to grow, they would inevitably require more staff besides developers that need expensive healthcare. Obamacare is a great way to keep small companies small.