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> That was predictable, Bitcoin is a huge source of chargebacks and fraud. It's also a potential huge competitor for PayPal.

by laureny 13y ago

nwh 13y ago
I sincerely doubt it. PayPal is an escrow service, Bitcoin includes one in the protocol but it's by no means the easy user protection PayPal provides.
- jfoster 13y ago
  I'm not really well versed in Bitcoin, so I could be misunderstanding the mechanics of it, but I think Bitcoin would be really good for PayPal. As you suggest, they would continue to provide their service, but instead of PayPal accounts being funded through Visa/MasterCard (X% txn fee) they could be funded through Bitcoin (0% txn fee). (disclosure: I currently own some eBay Inc stock)
  - nwh 13y ago
    That's completely and thoroughly possible, and doesn't at all conflict with the way eBay operates. I'm not sure if users would accept it particularly readily though, there's other escrow services that require no trust in the escrow agent, why would they use Bitcoin? I'm not particularly opposed to the idea, I don't mind PayPal particularly, I'm just not sure how well it would be adopted.
  - coldtea 13y ago
    Getting something that costed you X% to 0% is not always prefferable. Even if you're a business. Sometimes you go for what most of your customers already know or want, or you go for whats easier and handier, or you go for what is a known quantity and wont have legal or other problems down the line, you go for what's less volatile, etc etc. The only reason a big company like PayPal would ever use something like Bitcoin as it is today, is not to "take advantage of what it offers", but as a "early adopter marketing ploy", to get some tons of free press and publicity (while still relegating it safely to 1/10000 of their actual businesses).
    - aptwebapps 13y ago
      Why couldn't they offer BTC as a funding method alongside whatever they currently have? It doesn't have to be exclusive.
    - jfoster 13y ago
      Completely agree that any involvement in BTC at the moment would be "early adopter marketing" & on some of the other concerns established businesses could have with fundamental shifts in their industry. I don't think PayPal would go out of their way to push BTC. They're almost certainly taking a "wait and see" approach. The primary thing I unsuccessfully was trying to get across was that PayPal probably does not particularly fear or seek to undermine Bitcoin. It's likely to be upside for them.
  - pjc50 13y ago
    You can't do chargebacks in Bitcoin, though, so the entire process would have to be much more escrow-orientated (only release funds once customer is satisfied and has no more recourse).
- gutnor 13y ago
  I agree for EBay transaction between 2 private individuals. However, from a consumer / vendor perspective, paypal acts more as a regular payment processing. In that market, the vendor is the client, most of the features you enjoy as a user of services like Paypal or VISA (protection, credit, free transaction, ...) is paid for by the vendor. So their point of view is what matters and right now, they are not happy. Of course as you noted, Bitcoin on its own is not a competitor to anything except "mailing a check" type transaction. But it can enable creating competing services much more easily than before.
kalleboo 13y ago
It's also a potential huge market for PayPal if they decided to get into it.

> That was predictable, Bitcoin is a huge source of chargebacks and fraud. It's also a potential huge competitor for PayPal.

by laureny 13y ago

> That was predictable, Bitcoin is a huge source of chargebacks and fraud. It's also a potential huge competitor for PayPal.

nwh 13y ago

I sincerely doubt it. PayPal is an escrow service, Bitcoin includes one in the protocol but it's by no means the easy user protection PayPal provides.

jfoster 13y ago
I'm not really well versed in Bitcoin, so I could be misunderstanding the mechanics of it, but I think Bitcoin would be really good for PayPal. As you suggest, they would continue to provide their service, but instead of PayPal accounts being funded through Visa/MasterCard (X% txn fee) they could be funded through Bitcoin (0% txn fee). (disclosure: I currently own some eBay Inc stock)
- nwh 13y ago
  That's completely and thoroughly possible, and doesn't at all conflict with the way eBay operates. I'm not sure if users would accept it particularly readily though, there's other escrow services that require no trust in the escrow agent, why would they use Bitcoin? I'm not particularly opposed to the idea, I don't mind PayPal particularly, I'm just not sure how well it would be adopted.
- coldtea 13y ago
  Getting something that costed you X% to 0% is not always prefferable. Even if you're a business. Sometimes you go for what most of your customers already know or want, or you go for whats easier and handier, or you go for what is a known quantity and wont have legal or other problems down the line, you go for what's less volatile, etc etc. The only reason a big company like PayPal would ever use something like Bitcoin as it is today, is not to "take advantage of what it offers", but as a "early adopter marketing ploy", to get some tons of free press and publicity (while still relegating it safely to 1/10000 of their actual businesses).
  - aptwebapps 13y ago
    Why couldn't they offer BTC as a funding method alongside whatever they currently have? It doesn't have to be exclusive.
  - jfoster 13y ago
    Completely agree that any involvement in BTC at the moment would be "early adopter marketing" & on some of the other concerns established businesses could have with fundamental shifts in their industry. I don't think PayPal would go out of their way to push BTC. They're almost certainly taking a "wait and see" approach. The primary thing I unsuccessfully was trying to get across was that PayPal probably does not particularly fear or seek to undermine Bitcoin. It's likely to be upside for them.
- pjc50 13y ago
  You can't do chargebacks in Bitcoin, though, so the entire process would have to be much more escrow-orientated (only release funds once customer is satisfied and has no more recourse).
gutnor 13y ago
I agree for EBay transaction between 2 private individuals. However, from a consumer / vendor perspective, paypal acts more as a regular payment processing. In that market, the vendor is the client, most of the features you enjoy as a user of services like Paypal or VISA (protection, credit, free transaction, ...) is paid for by the vendor. So their point of view is what matters and right now, they are not happy. Of course as you noted, Bitcoin on its own is not a competitor to anything except "mailing a check" type transaction. But it can enable creating competing services much more easily than before.

kalleboo 13y ago

It's also a potential huge market for PayPal if they decided to get into it.