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The whole premise of this editorial seems to be that electronics are cheaper today than they were twenty or thirty years ago because workers are now being terri

The whole premise of this editorial seems to be that electronics are cheaper today than they were twenty or thirty years ago because workers are now being terribly exploited and abused. And we should feel guilty about that. There are several obvious flaws in this argument. The first is that electronics prices have come down for a whole raft of reasons ranging from currency exchange rates, to miniaturization, to automation. Labour is only one small part of the equation. The second is that crappy working conditions are not unique to electronics factories in China. Those pyjamas you wore last night, the one's where the crotch split the second time you put them on, were also made in a sweatshop somewhere. Years ago it might have been a sweatshop in New York City. Today it's a sweatshop in Nicarauga or Malaysia. I'm very keen on seeing working conditions improve for everyone, I just don't think that price is a meaningful metric for trying to gauge whether the factory worker is getting a fair shake.

TallGuyShort 17y ago
What you say is true - manufacturing techniques have changed more than he lets on, it's not all labour. However I still think he makes a good point when he says "it's going to cost" us. We talk about how living conditions need to improve in 3rd-world countries, but we buy products that exploit that system. We talk about how gas prices need to come down, but most people haven't changed their driving habits. We talk about how the economy needs to improve, but banks are still offering irresponsible mortgages. He does exaggerate the situation somewhat, but it's true that people will generally ignore issues that aren't immediately in front of them, and fail to take responsibility for their own way of life.
- eru 17y ago
  > We talk about how living conditions need to improve in 3rd-world countries, but we buy products that exploit that system. You should buy more stuff from the third world, if you want to help them. Not less. > We talk about how gas prices need to come down, but most people haven't changed their driving habits. Not a problem. High gasoline prices are good for the environment. > We talk about how the economy needs to improve, but banks are still offering irresponsible mortgages. If the banks can afford the offer and you think it's a good deal, why not take it?
  - TallGuyShort 17y ago
    > You should buy more stuff from the third world, if you want to help them. Not less. To a certain extent, true. If they don't have sweatshops to work in, they end up in worse situations, like prostitution. My point was that people criticize the conditions in other countries, and the corruption - but they don't stop and think about how that's partly why they have the lifestyle they do. > Not a problem. High gasoline prices are good for the environment. Only if people change their driving habits accordingly, and I know very few people who have actually altered their lifestyle. Increased sales of hybrids and less driving is a good thing, but it happens relatively rarely compared to complaints against OPEC. > If the banks can afford the offer and you think it's a good deal, why not take it? Because that's exactly how the housing bubble collapsed. My point is that the banks should offer deals they think they are good, but people shouldn't be complaining about the economy when they have mountains of debt themselves. I know a couple of people who have over $10G of credit card debt, and just got mortgages with no down payments. They also have no formal education and poor employment. How is that GOOD for the economy? It's good for the bank, yes, but the irresponsibility has been a major factor in the slow economy.
    - sokoloff 17y ago
      >> Not a problem. High gasoline prices are good for the environment. > Only if people change their driving habits accordingly, and I know very few people who have actually altered their lifestyle That sounds then like gas prices aren't high enough to drive the behavior change to the extent needed. $4 a gallon gas changed some habits. $10 a gallon would drive even further behavior change.
      - deleted 17y ago
        [deleted]
      - andyking 17y ago
        What sort of behaviour change are you after, though? It's all very well saying petrol prices should go up to help the environment, but the people hit hardest are those in rural areas. Should everyone go and rent a city centre apartment and give up on the countryside because they can't afford to get about?

TallGuyShort 17y ago

What you say is true - manufacturing techniques have changed more than he lets on, it's not all labour. However I still think he makes a good point when he says "it's going to cost" us. We talk about how living conditions need to improve in 3rd-world countries, but we buy products that exploit that system. We talk about how gas prices need to come down, but most people haven't changed their driving habits. We talk about how the economy needs to improve, but banks are still offering irresponsible mortgages. He does exaggerate the situation somewhat, but it's true that people will generally ignore issues that aren't immediately in front of them, and fail to take responsibility for their own way of life.

eru 17y ago
> We talk about how living conditions need to improve in 3rd-world countries, but we buy products that exploit that system. You should buy more stuff from the third world, if you want to help them. Not less. > We talk about how gas prices need to come down, but most people haven't changed their driving habits. Not a problem. High gasoline prices are good for the environment. > We talk about how the economy needs to improve, but banks are still offering irresponsible mortgages. If the banks can afford the offer and you think it's a good deal, why not take it?
- TallGuyShort 17y ago
  > You should buy more stuff from the third world, if you want to help them. Not less. To a certain extent, true. If they don't have sweatshops to work in, they end up in worse situations, like prostitution. My point was that people criticize the conditions in other countries, and the corruption - but they don't stop and think about how that's partly why they have the lifestyle they do. > Not a problem. High gasoline prices are good for the environment. Only if people change their driving habits accordingly, and I know very few people who have actually altered their lifestyle. Increased sales of hybrids and less driving is a good thing, but it happens relatively rarely compared to complaints against OPEC. > If the banks can afford the offer and you think it's a good deal, why not take it? Because that's exactly how the housing bubble collapsed. My point is that the banks should offer deals they think they are good, but people shouldn't be complaining about the economy when they have mountains of debt themselves. I know a couple of people who have over $10G of credit card debt, and just got mortgages with no down payments. They also have no formal education and poor employment. How is that GOOD for the economy? It's good for the bank, yes, but the irresponsibility has been a major factor in the slow economy.
  - sokoloff 17y ago
    >> Not a problem. High gasoline prices are good for the environment. > Only if people change their driving habits accordingly, and I know very few people who have actually altered their lifestyle That sounds then like gas prices aren't high enough to drive the behavior change to the extent needed. $4 a gallon gas changed some habits. $10 a gallon would drive even further behavior change.
    - deleted 17y ago
      [deleted]
    - andyking 17y ago
      What sort of behaviour change are you after, though? It's all very well saying petrol prices should go up to help the environment, but the people hit hardest are those in rural areas. Should everyone go and rent a city centre apartment and give up on the countryside because they can't afford to get about?