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Curious, how did you end up as a salaryman in Japan? Do they treat a drop-in foreigner as potential lifers as they would a Japanese recruit straight out of col

Curious, how did you end up as a salaryman in Japan? Do they treat a drop-in foreigner as potential lifers as they would a Japanese recruit straight out of college?

patio11 13y ago
Foreigners interact really quirkily with many Japanese societal norms. My company proposed hiring me as a salaryman (正社員) at our interview. I was flabbergasted, having assumed that they would naturally only consider me for contract employee status (契約社員). You don't want to be a salaryman but you really don't want to be a contract employee. My future boss made it clear (for the first of many times) that he intended on dealing with me squarely, in a fashion which is not universal among all Japanese employers, and that I had skills and educational attainment closest to his salarymen and thus I should be a salaryman. He asked if I understood what he was asking for me. I said that I did, that I was honored, and that owing to my age and situation I didn't think I could promise him that I would reside in Japan continuously until my retirement. He said that he understood I had particular circumstances and would accept the possibility of me leaving at some indefinite point in the future as long as it was, say, 4 years off, seeing as he was sticking his neck out for me. I told him that 4 years was a long time for an unmarried 25 year old and asked if 3 was acceptable. We shook on it, so to speak. To my bosses' enduring credit, they were scrupulously fair in dealing with me as a Japanese salaryman, despite that being almost shockingly abnormal at many Japanese firms, and they made it quite clear that everyone else was to deal with me in the same fashion or they'd find out what a Japanese multinational will do on behalf of a wronged employee. [Edit to add: If people detect notes of conflicting opinions from me regarding salarymanhood, it's largely because that one specific bit of Japanese corporate culture -- loyalty -- really resonated with me. Feudalism is a pretty effed up system, too, but aside from all the Game of Thrones Except In Real Life bits it had its own peculiar beauty to it. I sort of feel like that about salarymandom.] How I got hired there is a long story. I think I've told it on HN and elsewhere before.
- toomuchtodo 13y ago
  Thanks for this post. I'm always fascinated by culture/work intersection points.
- fiatjaf 13y ago
  you should write more about Japan.

Curious, how did you end up as a salaryman in Japan? Do they treat a drop-in foreigner as potential lifers as they would a Japanese recruit straight out of college?

patio11 13y ago

Foreigners interact really quirkily with many Japanese societal norms. My company proposed hiring me as a salaryman (正社員) at our interview. I was flabbergasted, having assumed that they would naturally only consider me for contract employee status (契約社員). You don't want to be a salaryman but you really don't want to be a contract employee. My future boss made it clear (for the first of many times) that he intended on dealing with me squarely, in a fashion which is not universal among all Japanese employers, and that I had skills and educational attainment closest to his salarymen and thus I should be a salaryman. He asked if I understood what he was asking for me. I said that I did, that I was honored, and that owing to my age and situation I didn't think I could promise him that I would reside in Japan continuously until my retirement. He said that he understood I had particular circumstances and would accept the possibility of me leaving at some indefinite point in the future as long as it was, say, 4 years off, seeing as he was sticking his neck out for me. I told him that 4 years was a long time for an unmarried 25 year old and asked if 3 was acceptable. We shook on it, so to speak. To my bosses' enduring credit, they were scrupulously fair in dealing with me as a Japanese salaryman, despite that being almost shockingly abnormal at many Japanese firms, and they made it quite clear that everyone else was to deal with me in the same fashion or they'd find out what a Japanese multinational will do on behalf of a wronged employee. [Edit to add: If people detect notes of conflicting opinions from me regarding salarymanhood, it's largely because that one specific bit of Japanese corporate culture -- loyalty -- really resonated with me. Feudalism is a pretty effed up system, too, but aside from all the Game of Thrones Except In Real Life bits it had its own peculiar beauty to it. I sort of feel like that about salarymandom.] How I got hired there is a long story. I think I've told it on HN and elsewhere before.

toomuchtodo 13y ago
Thanks for this post. I'm always fascinated by culture/work intersection points.
fiatjaf 13y ago
you should write more about Japan.