5 ms·

TerrAvion (YC W14) Launches Aerial Imagery As A Service For Farmers

49 points by cornellwright 13y ago

jackhammons 13y ago
For those interested, here is a paper that explains the importance of ariel imaging for crops. http://www.lighthillrisknetwork.org/uploads/Crop-Insurance-A-Briefing-paper-Nov-2013-(FS-KTN).pdf http://www.lighthillrisknetwork.org/uploads/Crop-Insurance-A...
jacquesm 13y ago
ASK PG: Just to be clear, is this a thread where we're supposed to be supportive? Or will you kill this thread too because it is about a YC company? If you have showdead set to off, this is in reference to: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7179063 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7179063 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7178341 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7178341 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7178004 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7178004
- pg 13y ago
  As you know, I didn't kill those posts because they're about a YC company. I killed them because HN is a news site, not a support forum for YC companies. And the reason we don't want that sort of post is not to conceal problems with YC cos, but because (as we saw) this sort of indignation-inducing fluff is so easy to upvote that it will take over a site if you allow it. It is a super lame move to try to hijack a thread about a newly launched startup to get attention for some unrelated grievance. You wouldn't like if it someone did that to you.
  - swombat 13y ago
    I find myself agreeing with you on this particular case, though I do feel there's a serious problem with HN's moderation. Perhaps an effort to make the (manual AND automatic) moderation processes more transparent would go a long way towards avoiding this situation where people feel they're fighting with a faceless machine and so get upset. There are far too many situations where posts go up and down as if by magic, and no one can figure out why. How would you feel if someone did that to you?
  - jacquesm 13y ago
    Your first argument would hold more water if you consistently did this, rather than willy-nilly as observed so far. As for hijacking this thread, there was another thread that was perfectly suited for the purpose, you killed it, besides you've removed my ability to post so I had this left as a means of last resort. Think of it as a hack, this is 'hacker news' after all, isn't it?
    - ynniv 13y ago
      you've removed my ability to post HN seem to have a lot of targeted moderation "features" these days. Years ago I seem to have lost my ability to flag articles, which as far as I can tell comes from flagging things that the mods don't think should be flagged. As for the original killed threads, I can't see what makes the Ask HN post different from a blog post with the same content that's been submitted. The guidelines say to not post what could have been emailed, but the poster was asking the HN community for advice and not asking the startup anything, so the post was not killed strictly per HN guidelines. My 2¢ is that moderation is damaging the community more than submissions and comments.
    - tptacek 13y ago
      The hack you just described has a name. It's called "trolling".
      - napoleond 13y ago
        It's called "trolling". Not really. Or rather, the question of whether or not it was trolling is the subject of [current] debate. (It depends on whether it was off-topic or not--clearly 'pg thinks it was, and some people think that since he is the owner/creator/BDFL he is right, but lots of other intelligent people disagree, which is the whole reason this thread exists. I'm not really sure it matters, but calling 'jaquesm a troll is pretty strong.)
- throwaway_yy2Di 13y ago
  (Sorry to contribute to this derailing!) jacques, do you know off a forum off of HN where this is being discussed? There's nothing left on HN besides your comment.
  - jacquesm 13y ago
    No, I'm not, but then again, I don't regularly read other fora (correction, sorry: news sites). I suspect the OP did an ASK HN because it involves a YC backed company and there was a good chance the founders were HN members. One good thing that came out of it is that the CEO is now aware of it (as per his comment in the thread) and hopefully he'll get to the bottom of that particular customers issues. So if my assumption is correct then we can look forward to a post by the same OP relating how he got excellent support in a couple of days, or maybe he'll sue them after all.
gsaines 13y ago
Congrats on the launch guys, best of luck!
terravion 13y ago
The biggest surprise for me in starting this business was how expensive drones are. I used them in the Army and I love them, but when we did the math about using them in the business they do not come close to an old Cessna with a pilot looking for hours.
- terravion 13y ago
  2014 is going to be crazy, we've launched in time to help California farmers manage through the drought.
- ajju 13y ago
  Congratulations. Just yesterday I told a friend about Terravion but I thought you guys were using drones. Are there any drone platforms with >1 hr flight time and >1 mile range available for non-defense use? By the way, the TechCrunch article mentions a per-pass price for other services, but doesn't clarify whether Terravion's price is per-pass, so it actually makes it sound like you are more expensive by comparison.
  - cornellwright 13y ago
    Something like the Insitu ScanEagle is probably the drone closest to being effective for our application: http://www.insitu.com/systems/scaneagle/capabilities http://www.insitu.com/systems/scaneagle/capabilities However, they're still quite expensive and not really cheaper to operate than a Cessna, and then there are the legal issues. I personally think that once of the things that will drive the cost of drones down quite a bit will be when an autopilot maker comes out with a way to retrofit Cessnas and other proven, GA airframes into OPVs (optionally piloted vehicles).
    - ajju 13y ago
      "Each ScanEagle system costs US$3.2 million (2006)" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Insitu_ScanEagle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Insitu_ScanEagle) Indeed!
  - blutack 13y ago
daveyfuller 13y ago
Perhaps ranking on this site is an important metric for up-and-coming startups, but it seems silly get mad about it. As long as you keep your customers happy, and putting out a solid product, people will notice. Congratulations on the launch.
GarrettBeck 13y ago
I'd be interested in seeing the cost analysis/breakdown of hiring Cessna pilots to take pictures vs. renting Parrot AR Drones with GoPros to farmers, teaching them to survey their own land and provide them with a software built by TerrAvion. Give a man a fish vs. teach a man to fish
- cornellwright 13y ago
  We looked into this quite extensively. It's actually surprisingly cheaper to fly a Cessna vs use a small drone. We can cover 100,000 acres in a day with a Cessna, compared to maybe 400 (not including time for battery charging) with a small hand launched drone. Along with that farmers are really busy and not very interested in operating another new tool. We intend to move to drones whenever they are legal, cheaper and more effective, but in the meantime Cessnas are the answer.
  - GarrettBeck 13y ago
    That's interesting. Congrats on the launch and best of luck!
- ajju 13y ago
  Was looking into this just yesterday after a friend suggested an interesting application of drones. The Parrot drones seem to have a very low range for any practical use such as this. From a few minutes of looking online, I couldn't find any drone platforms available for consumers with a range that can extend beyond 1000 meters. Even the DJI Phantom 2 which can do 1000 meters can only do it in favorable environments.
- terravion 13y ago
  If you'll let me further explain what <$30 per acre pricing per season means for farmers... We have client in Livermore, CA who is actually a lawyer but has a 5 acre vineyard at his house. For $150 he can't even afford to do the research on Amazon to pick the right drone with the right sensor, let alone buy it, and operate it. He is right next to another client, a large integrated grower with a couple thousand acres. No matter what sized drone they picked, if they were going to do a high-revisit service internally, they would have to hire someone full time to run it. We deliver to them for far less than the price of a new employee, let alone all the IT they would have to invest in.
strebler 13y ago
I know a number of aerial photo companies who have done this type of work for decades - what's new here? My knowledge from local farmers is that they already pay for experts who amalgamate a variety of data sources (soil testing, aerial, satellite, etc) to assess & treat their crops. I mean, does a farmer even know what is NDVI or how to interpret it?
- cornellwright 13y ago
  What's different is doing it as a subscription and at a high revisit rate. Farmers can interpret NDVI and what's actually more amazing is the amount a grower can tell about her fields from just a visual photo. By providing a time series of 30 weekly images it makes changes readily apparent and doesn't require expert consulting (beyond the extensive expertise that farmers already have) to make better decisions.
vollmarj 13y ago
Congrats on the launch guys!

49 points by cornellwright 13y ago

For those interested, here is a paper that explains the importance of ariel imaging for crops. http://www.lighthillrisknetwork.org/uploads/Crop-Insurance-A-Briefing-paper-Nov-2013-(FS-KTN).pdf http://www.lighthillrisknetwork.org/uploads/Crop-Insurance-A...

jacquesm 13y ago

ASK PG: Just to be clear, is this a thread where we're supposed to be supportive? Or will you kill this thread too because it is about a YC company? If you have showdead set to off, this is in reference to: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7179063 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7179063 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7178341 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7178341 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7178004 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7178004

pg 13y ago
As you know, I didn't kill those posts because they're about a YC company. I killed them because HN is a news site, not a support forum for YC companies. And the reason we don't want that sort of post is not to conceal problems with YC cos, but because (as we saw) this sort of indignation-inducing fluff is so easy to upvote that it will take over a site if you allow it. It is a super lame move to try to hijack a thread about a newly launched startup to get attention for some unrelated grievance. You wouldn't like if it someone did that to you.
- swombat 13y ago
  I find myself agreeing with you on this particular case, though I do feel there's a serious problem with HN's moderation. Perhaps an effort to make the (manual AND automatic) moderation processes more transparent would go a long way towards avoiding this situation where people feel they're fighting with a faceless machine and so get upset. There are far too many situations where posts go up and down as if by magic, and no one can figure out why. How would you feel if someone did that to you?
- jacquesm 13y ago
  Your first argument would hold more water if you consistently did this, rather than willy-nilly as observed so far. As for hijacking this thread, there was another thread that was perfectly suited for the purpose, you killed it, besides you've removed my ability to post so I had this left as a means of last resort. Think of it as a hack, this is 'hacker news' after all, isn't it?
  - ynniv 13y ago
    you've removed my ability to post HN seem to have a lot of targeted moderation "features" these days. Years ago I seem to have lost my ability to flag articles, which as far as I can tell comes from flagging things that the mods don't think should be flagged. As for the original killed threads, I can't see what makes the Ask HN post different from a blog post with the same content that's been submitted. The guidelines say to not post what could have been emailed, but the poster was asking the HN community for advice and not asking the startup anything, so the post was not killed strictly per HN guidelines. My 2¢ is that moderation is damaging the community more than submissions and comments.
  - tptacek 13y ago
    The hack you just described has a name. It's called "trolling".
    - napoleond 13y ago
      It's called "trolling". Not really. Or rather, the question of whether or not it was trolling is the subject of [current] debate. (It depends on whether it was off-topic or not--clearly 'pg thinks it was, and some people think that since he is the owner/creator/BDFL he is right, but lots of other intelligent people disagree, which is the whole reason this thread exists. I'm not really sure it matters, but calling 'jaquesm a troll is pretty strong.)
throwaway_yy2Di 13y ago
(Sorry to contribute to this derailing!) jacques, do you know off a forum off of HN where this is being discussed? There's nothing left on HN besides your comment.
- jacquesm 13y ago
  No, I'm not, but then again, I don't regularly read other fora (correction, sorry: news sites). I suspect the OP did an ASK HN because it involves a YC backed company and there was a good chance the founders were HN members. One good thing that came out of it is that the CEO is now aware of it (as per his comment in the thread) and hopefully he'll get to the bottom of that particular customers issues. So if my assumption is correct then we can look forward to a post by the same OP relating how he got excellent support in a couple of days, or maybe he'll sue them after all.

gsaines 13y ago

Congrats on the launch guys, best of luck!

terravion 13y ago

The biggest surprise for me in starting this business was how expensive drones are. I used them in the Army and I love them, but when we did the math about using them in the business they do not come close to an old Cessna with a pilot looking for hours.

terravion 13y ago
2014 is going to be crazy, we've launched in time to help California farmers manage through the drought.
ajju 13y ago
Congratulations. Just yesterday I told a friend about Terravion but I thought you guys were using drones. Are there any drone platforms with >1 hr flight time and >1 mile range available for non-defense use? By the way, the TechCrunch article mentions a per-pass price for other services, but doesn't clarify whether Terravion's price is per-pass, so it actually makes it sound like you are more expensive by comparison.
- cornellwright 13y ago
  Something like the Insitu ScanEagle is probably the drone closest to being effective for our application: http://www.insitu.com/systems/scaneagle/capabilities http://www.insitu.com/systems/scaneagle/capabilities However, they're still quite expensive and not really cheaper to operate than a Cessna, and then there are the legal issues. I personally think that once of the things that will drive the cost of drones down quite a bit will be when an autopilot maker comes out with a way to retrofit Cessnas and other proven, GA airframes into OPVs (optionally piloted vehicles).
  - ajju 13y ago
    "Each ScanEagle system costs US$3.2 million (2006)" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Insitu_ScanEagle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Insitu_ScanEagle) Indeed!
- blutack 13y ago

daveyfuller 13y ago

Perhaps ranking on this site is an important metric for up-and-coming startups, but it seems silly get mad about it. As long as you keep your customers happy, and putting out a solid product, people will notice. Congratulations on the launch.

GarrettBeck 13y ago

I'd be interested in seeing the cost analysis/breakdown of hiring Cessna pilots to take pictures vs. renting Parrot AR Drones with GoPros to farmers, teaching them to survey their own land and provide them with a software built by TerrAvion. Give a man a fish vs. teach a man to fish

cornellwright 13y ago
We looked into this quite extensively. It's actually surprisingly cheaper to fly a Cessna vs use a small drone. We can cover 100,000 acres in a day with a Cessna, compared to maybe 400 (not including time for battery charging) with a small hand launched drone. Along with that farmers are really busy and not very interested in operating another new tool. We intend to move to drones whenever they are legal, cheaper and more effective, but in the meantime Cessnas are the answer.
- GarrettBeck 13y ago
  That's interesting. Congrats on the launch and best of luck!
ajju 13y ago
Was looking into this just yesterday after a friend suggested an interesting application of drones. The Parrot drones seem to have a very low range for any practical use such as this. From a few minutes of looking online, I couldn't find any drone platforms available for consumers with a range that can extend beyond 1000 meters. Even the DJI Phantom 2 which can do 1000 meters can only do it in favorable environments.
terravion 13y ago
If you'll let me further explain what <$30 per acre pricing per season means for farmers... We have client in Livermore, CA who is actually a lawyer but has a 5 acre vineyard at his house. For $150 he can't even afford to do the research on Amazon to pick the right drone with the right sensor, let alone buy it, and operate it. He is right next to another client, a large integrated grower with a couple thousand acres. No matter what sized drone they picked, if they were going to do a high-revisit service internally, they would have to hire someone full time to run it. We deliver to them for far less than the price of a new employee, let alone all the IT they would have to invest in.

strebler 13y ago

I know a number of aerial photo companies who have done this type of work for decades - what's new here? My knowledge from local farmers is that they already pay for experts who amalgamate a variety of data sources (soil testing, aerial, satellite, etc) to assess & treat their crops. I mean, does a farmer even know what is NDVI or how to interpret it?

cornellwright 13y ago
What's different is doing it as a subscription and at a high revisit rate. Farmers can interpret NDVI and what's actually more amazing is the amount a grower can tell about her fields from just a visual photo. By providing a time series of 30 weekly images it makes changes readily apparent and doesn't require expert consulting (beyond the extensive expertise that farmers already have) to make better decisions.

vollmarj 13y ago

Congrats on the launch guys!