7 ms·

The DEA is evil. They operate under a pretense of "reducing harm" yet are actively trying to create more crime to validate their existence. In the course of doi

by pstuart 13y ago

The DEA is evil. They operate under a pretense of "reducing harm" yet are actively trying to create more crime to validate their existence. In the course of doing so they create far more harm than they ostensibly prevent.

jrockway 13y ago
To be fair, I think you're blaming the wrong agency here. The Drug Enforcement Administration is going to do everything it can to prosecute as many drug violations as they can. That's their charter. You should instead convince legislators to make drugs less illegal, and use the police resources for something else. If the Preventing Kids From Being Kidnapped Administration was as well-funded as the DEA, these agents would be coming up with clever ways to catch predators instead.
- protonfish 13y ago
  I think you are blaming the wrong branch of government. The DEA and the policy of "War on Drugs" are both responsibilities of the executive.
  - revscat 13y ago
    And, in turn, the executive branch's job is to enforce the law. Could the current administration do more to scale back the War on Drugs? Possibly. Probably, even. But they are taking some measures, however small. E.g.: [1] [1] http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/24/5341284/obama-administration-to-set-rules-for-banks-to-handle-weed-money http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/24/5341284/obama-administrati...
    - pessimizer 13y ago
      >the executive branch's job is to enforce the law. That's starting to become a very quaint idea.
    - Crito 13y ago
      I don't think they are required by law to employ parallel construction, and whatever the hell this redacted technique is. At a certain point even people in the executive branch become responsible for their own actions and decisions.
  - smsm42 13y ago
    Executive branch is guilty of enforcing the evil laws, but these evil laws exist and are made more evil (e.g. mandatory sentences, theory of "precursors", etc.) by the legislative branch. So everybody is guilty here.
- forrestthewoods 13y ago
  Yes, and the charter you just gave is is evil. Fundamentally evil. Pure evil even. "...do everything it can to prosecute as many drug violations as they can." That makes no mention of improving society. Or protecting society. Or providing valuable services to the citizens of society. Nor does it even make mention of the validity of the violations in question. Who cares if the violations in question are actually true. Truth and justice have nothing to do with the charter! So no, the DEA deserves to be perfectly square in the crosshairs of blame. Along with many other agencies and governmental organizations.
  - gamblor956 13y ago
    It's called the "Drug Enforcement Agency." It's sole purpose is to enforce drug laws, not to make drug policy. Like other agencies, it was created to enforce the policies enacted by politicians (Congresscritters and Senators). Blame the politicians, not the agencies.
    - bionsuba 13y ago
      It's called the "Rape Creation Agency" It's sole purpose is to rape people, not to make rape policy. Like other agencies, it was created to enforce the policies enacted by politicians (Congresscritters and Senators). Blame the politicians, not the agencies. I know it seems like a straw man but I just wish to show that your reasoning isn't quite sound.
      - chc 13y ago
        Unless you're meaning to imply that laws around drugs are categorically evil, I don't think you actually have a point.
        smsm42 13y ago
        The US laws around drugs right now are categorically evil, yes.
        13y ago
- pstuart 13y ago
  The DEA actively lobbies to keep drugs illegal, not on the science, but simply self-promotion.
  - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
    Well, they may actually believe their propaganda, which just means that their authority (to influence drug policy) extends beyond the bounds of their competence.
- revelation 13y ago
  You don't even need to bring the prohibition discussion into this. The problem with the DEA isn't their mission or charter, it's that they have convinced themselves along the way that to make an impact, they need to become an intelligence agency and support certain cartels, funnel weapons to them, turn a blind eye on their operations in the USA - this is where they are creating extra harm. They believe they are the genius third party that is playing cartels against each other, when really the cartel soldiers don't stop working over the weekend and will happily take whatever support the DEA has to offer while shielding the upper echelons.
  - owenthrow 13y ago
    "The problem with the DEA isn't their mission or charter" On the contrary, that's the only problem. Once you have an agency mission to violate human rights and the Constitution, all the abuses follow directly. The problem isn't corrupt behavior from the DEA and drug police. The problem is that prohibition is illegal and unconstitutional and inherently contrary to basic human rights. You can't create and run an operation to deprive people of their agency, choices, and rights and then conduct that operation in a decent, honest, and civilized manner. That would be self-contradictory; everything the operation does is wrong; doing it well can't make it right. In fact, the abuses documented in op and widely elsewhere are really not a part of the problem at all. If we had an agency that read people's minds and imprisoned them if they did not love big brother enough, then failures of the mind reading device would be a benefit because at least some people would retain freedom of conscience by accident. Likewise, every time the DEA or drug police kill and imprison innocents, it's good for the country. They would be killing and imprisoning someone no matter what and at least when the victims are innocent, someone out there is retaining his fundamental right to choose what substances to use or not use inside his own body.
- r00fus 13y ago
  > To be fair, I think you're blaming the wrong agency here. Stop kicking the can. The DEA is part of the problem in that any organization's goal is self-propogation and continued existence to benefit it's membership. That they were given a corrupt charter doesn't mean they're innocent actors. They are part and parcel of the security state combined with private interests, corrupt legislators, bribed judges and other agencies whose mission has strayed from public benefit to lining their own pockets. In fact, I wouldn't doubt that given their power, they are increasingly targeted/infiltrated by the very criminal interests they're trying to control - meaning their purpose is skewed for vendetta resolution and clearing out markets for drug cartels (note: HSBC was caught laundering money for the cartels, why would the DEA be less corruptible?).
- smsm42 13y ago
  That's what makes them evil. The fact that the evil has been spawned by the act of Congress doesn't make it less evil. It just makes Congress responsible for doing evil.
- rdl 13y ago
  It seems pretty clear that the culture at DEA is also to blame; there are plenty of other areas of law enforcement which is comparatively reasonable. The severity of the punishments, and the level of funding, is the fault of congress, but a well-funded DEA which stuck strictly to the law would be a lot better than what we have now. Part of it is that drug smuggling gangs are some of the worst criminals, and putting police agencies in constant contact with them seems to corrupt them (Nietzsche...).
DamnYuppie 13y ago
While I agree in principle I would be remiss if I didn't say that the ATF is much worse. I mean the DEA doesn't go around sniping kids and all. For those who are curious or unaware read up on Ruby Ridge. Don't forget their handy work in Waco either...
- Crito 13y ago
  I would wager that far more children have been killed as a direct result of the DEA and the "War on Drugs" than have been killed by the ATF. That isn't necessarily an interesting observation however, since the ATF only gets involved in operations that are far less common.
websitescenes 13y ago
You are completely correct. DEA is the top drug dealer in the US. They are the real gangsters, not the BS thugs we see on TV.

by pstuart 13y ago

jrockway 13y ago

To be fair, I think you're blaming the wrong agency here. The Drug Enforcement Administration is going to do everything it can to prosecute as many drug violations as they can. That's their charter. You should instead convince legislators to make drugs less illegal, and use the police resources for something else. If the Preventing Kids From Being Kidnapped Administration was as well-funded as the DEA, these agents would be coming up with clever ways to catch predators instead.

protonfish 13y ago
I think you are blaming the wrong branch of government. The DEA and the policy of "War on Drugs" are both responsibilities of the executive.
- revscat 13y ago
  And, in turn, the executive branch's job is to enforce the law. Could the current administration do more to scale back the War on Drugs? Possibly. Probably, even. But they are taking some measures, however small. E.g.: [1] [1] http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/24/5341284/obama-administration-to-set-rules-for-banks-to-handle-weed-money http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/24/5341284/obama-administrati...
  - pessimizer 13y ago
    >the executive branch's job is to enforce the law. That's starting to become a very quaint idea.
  - Crito 13y ago
    I don't think they are required by law to employ parallel construction, and whatever the hell this redacted technique is. At a certain point even people in the executive branch become responsible for their own actions and decisions.
- smsm42 13y ago
  Executive branch is guilty of enforcing the evil laws, but these evil laws exist and are made more evil (e.g. mandatory sentences, theory of "precursors", etc.) by the legislative branch. So everybody is guilty here.
forrestthewoods 13y ago
Yes, and the charter you just gave is is evil. Fundamentally evil. Pure evil even. "...do everything it can to prosecute as many drug violations as they can." That makes no mention of improving society. Or protecting society. Or providing valuable services to the citizens of society. Nor does it even make mention of the validity of the violations in question. Who cares if the violations in question are actually true. Truth and justice have nothing to do with the charter! So no, the DEA deserves to be perfectly square in the crosshairs of blame. Along with many other agencies and governmental organizations.
- gamblor956 13y ago
  It's called the "Drug Enforcement Agency." It's sole purpose is to enforce drug laws, not to make drug policy. Like other agencies, it was created to enforce the policies enacted by politicians (Congresscritters and Senators). Blame the politicians, not the agencies.
  - bionsuba 13y ago
    It's called the "Rape Creation Agency" It's sole purpose is to rape people, not to make rape policy. Like other agencies, it was created to enforce the policies enacted by politicians (Congresscritters and Senators). Blame the politicians, not the agencies. I know it seems like a straw man but I just wish to show that your reasoning isn't quite sound.
    - chc 13y ago
      Unless you're meaning to imply that laws around drugs are categorically evil, I don't think you actually have a point.
      - smsm42 13y ago
        The US laws around drugs right now are categorically evil, yes.
        13y ago
pstuart 13y ago
The DEA actively lobbies to keep drugs illegal, not on the science, but simply self-promotion.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
  Well, they may actually believe their propaganda, which just means that their authority (to influence drug policy) extends beyond the bounds of their competence.
revelation 13y ago
You don't even need to bring the prohibition discussion into this. The problem with the DEA isn't their mission or charter, it's that they have convinced themselves along the way that to make an impact, they need to become an intelligence agency and support certain cartels, funnel weapons to them, turn a blind eye on their operations in the USA - this is where they are creating extra harm. They believe they are the genius third party that is playing cartels against each other, when really the cartel soldiers don't stop working over the weekend and will happily take whatever support the DEA has to offer while shielding the upper echelons.
- owenthrow 13y ago
  "The problem with the DEA isn't their mission or charter" On the contrary, that's the only problem. Once you have an agency mission to violate human rights and the Constitution, all the abuses follow directly. The problem isn't corrupt behavior from the DEA and drug police. The problem is that prohibition is illegal and unconstitutional and inherently contrary to basic human rights. You can't create and run an operation to deprive people of their agency, choices, and rights and then conduct that operation in a decent, honest, and civilized manner. That would be self-contradictory; everything the operation does is wrong; doing it well can't make it right. In fact, the abuses documented in op and widely elsewhere are really not a part of the problem at all. If we had an agency that read people's minds and imprisoned them if they did not love big brother enough, then failures of the mind reading device would be a benefit because at least some people would retain freedom of conscience by accident. Likewise, every time the DEA or drug police kill and imprison innocents, it's good for the country. They would be killing and imprisoning someone no matter what and at least when the victims are innocent, someone out there is retaining his fundamental right to choose what substances to use or not use inside his own body.
r00fus 13y ago
> To be fair, I think you're blaming the wrong agency here. Stop kicking the can. The DEA is part of the problem in that any organization's goal is self-propogation and continued existence to benefit it's membership. That they were given a corrupt charter doesn't mean they're innocent actors. They are part and parcel of the security state combined with private interests, corrupt legislators, bribed judges and other agencies whose mission has strayed from public benefit to lining their own pockets. In fact, I wouldn't doubt that given their power, they are increasingly targeted/infiltrated by the very criminal interests they're trying to control - meaning their purpose is skewed for vendetta resolution and clearing out markets for drug cartels (note: HSBC was caught laundering money for the cartels, why would the DEA be less corruptible?).
smsm42 13y ago
That's what makes them evil. The fact that the evil has been spawned by the act of Congress doesn't make it less evil. It just makes Congress responsible for doing evil.
rdl 13y ago
It seems pretty clear that the culture at DEA is also to blame; there are plenty of other areas of law enforcement which is comparatively reasonable. The severity of the punishments, and the level of funding, is the fault of congress, but a well-funded DEA which stuck strictly to the law would be a lot better than what we have now. Part of it is that drug smuggling gangs are some of the worst criminals, and putting police agencies in constant contact with them seems to corrupt them (Nietzsche...).

DamnYuppie 13y ago

While I agree in principle I would be remiss if I didn't say that the ATF is much worse. I mean the DEA doesn't go around sniping kids and all. For those who are curious or unaware read up on Ruby Ridge. Don't forget their handy work in Waco either...

Crito 13y ago
I would wager that far more children have been killed as a direct result of the DEA and the "War on Drugs" than have been killed by the ATF. That isn't necessarily an interesting observation however, since the ATF only gets involved in operations that are far less common.

websitescenes 13y ago

You are completely correct. DEA is the top drug dealer in the US. They are the real gangsters, not the BS thugs we see on TV.