5 ms·

There's something deeply symbolic about watching those enthusiastic people doing their Sorkin walks for the camera through the vast and completely empty halls o

by Udo 13y ago

There's something deeply symbolic about watching those enthusiastic people doing their Sorkin walks for the camera through the vast and completely empty halls of the Microsoft offices (or is it a museum, I can't tell). By the numbers, Microsoft is still incredibly relevant. At the same time, I can't even remember when I last used any MS product. It's not a boycott, there are simply no points where their stuff intersects with my life. I can imagine I'm not the only one, and that's not a comfortable position to be in for them. However, it's also difficult to see how they could ever break out of that. From where I'm standing they look like a partly consumer-focused IBM: rich, powerful, calcified, eternal, but computing has largely moved on and left them behind. As a former MS user, I wish them all the success in the world turning this around.

ryanjshaw 13y ago
You probably use services running on Microsoft-based platforms all the time if you e.g. have a bank account, use commercial airports, have insurance of any form, etc. Those big numbers you're waving away represent real, significant businesses.
- Udo 13y ago
  Even if you assume I didn't know that (which is somewhat audacious of you), this sounds exactly like IBM. Which was my point, and I'm not waving anything away. I guess there's nothing wrong with being another IBM per se, on the other hand they wouldn't have had to change CEOs if they were all that satisfied with their general trajectory.
  - ryanjshaw 13y ago
    I'm not assuming anything, I'm reading what you wrote: > there are simply no points where their stuff intersects with my life. As to your other point: Microsoft is big. A "general trajectory" is very vague at their scale. Failure in one area (mobile, tablet) does not imply failure in another (enterprise), or indeed overall. I don't see what's wrong with trying to find a CEO who can turnaround that failure, and don't think it's really indicative of anything other than a missed opportunity.
    - Udo 13y ago
      That's nitpicking. But yes, technically you're correct, I didn't cover the cases where other people outside of my control are using MS software behind the scenes which has an influence on my life. However, we're getting very far away from the original point just for the sake of one-upmanship. I'm not asserting MS is failing. We basically agree though that there are areas where a turnaround would be exceedingly beneficial or even actually needed. I was trying to illustrate something about those areas, namely that I'd like MS to come back and make contributions to things I care about. It's not selfish, it was merely a wish to make our ecosystem richer again. And I wouldn't have guessed this opinion to be that controversial, but here we go.
      - ryanjshaw 13y ago
        It's not notpicking, and your constant attempts to belittle critical responses to your opinion is becoming annoying. Your argument is: because you don't see their products intersecting with your life, and - you imagine - that of many others, you imagine that's an undesirable position for them to be in, and that computing has largely moved on and left them behind. I'm pointing out that your argument is focused on one niche -- a big one, but by all means not one that makes them "left behind" just because they have a small presence within it. Perhaps you think Walmart [1a] is irrelevant and left behind because you never shop there? Or that Apple [1b] is irrelevant and left behind because you don't own an i*device/service? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_by_revenue http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_by_re... [1a] The largest US company by revenue [1b] The largest US company by market cap
        Udo 13y ago
        I apologize if my comments seem belittling, I assure you they're not meant that way. In fact, condescension is the main impression I got from your first reply. At the same time I feel your tone has taken on a personal and aggressive quality that is not acceptable. I was merely trying to rectify what I thought was a miscommunication or maybe a misunderstanding of my original post. Now I see that's not likely to be productive, so excuse me for bowing out of this thread.
wil421 13y ago
You must not work in the corporate world. Microsoft has a massive foothold in enterprise: email, instant messaging (lync), excel, word, visio, project, even sharepoint and those are just the pieces you can see not to mention whats going in the backend. Being one of the only Mac users in my office I constantly have to find work arounds for everything. Sadly they will be relevant for a long time we have almost 30,000 people using windows and they wont be learning anything new for a long time if ever. I do hope the changing of the guard will help microsoft to build better products that integrate with OS's beside windows.
- Udo 13y ago
  > You must not work in the corporate world. That's an interesting assumption. > Microsoft has a massive foothold in enterprise There is nothing in my comment to suggest otherwise. On a meta note, I've been getting these "corrections" a lot here on HN lately, I'm just not sure why that's happening. Am I just too sensitive? Should I be more explicit in my comments? I'm not being touchy, I'd really like to know. > I do hope the changing of the guard will help microsoft to build better products that integrate with OS's beside windows. Agreed, it would be great if they aimed for integration as a more general goal too.
  - gambogi 13y ago
    The second sentence you quoted appears to be backing up the assumption, or giving you a clue as to where it came from. I don't think he was "correcting" you
  - Spooky23 13y ago
    I think the world has gotten a little weird. You have real life businesses today that have no Microsoft stuff in them at all. If you live in a corporate environment defined by your Windows XP desktop, it's difficult to imagine a world where grey, 9 lb laptops and horrible corporate Windows installs aren't the norm.
  - swashboon 13y ago
    > I can't even remember when I last used any MS product > Microsoft has a massive foothold in enterprise > You must not work in the corporate world You said you never interact with MS products, those products have a massive foothold in the corporate world, therefore you probably do not work in the corporate world. If you are doing corporate work, not just software development (though even that too) in a corporate setting but business analysis, etc., and you do not use powerpoint/excel/visio then you are very much outside the norm. >On a meta note, I've been getting these "corrections" a lot here on HN lately, I'm just not sure why that's happening. The "corrections" as above, are an attempt to offer a different opinion that counteracts yours because it is seen as outside the normal expirience people are having and since you are getting them often I would think that is because there are many aspects of your comments that are outside the norm. >Am I just too sensitive? Should I be more explicit in my comments? I don't think so, your comment seems to add a valuable perspective from someone who does not use MS products in their daily activities, pointing that it is possible when surrounded by the right work culture.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
bovermyer 13y ago
As a counterpoint, I use Microsoft stuff more than ever now. I migrated my email from Gmail to Outlook.com, I subscribe to Office 365 Home Premium, I use Skydrive as my cloud storage provider, and I'm starting to dabble in ASP.Net for web development again. Oh, and I use (and enjoy) Windows 8. So, yes, people like you exist. But so do people like me.
hythloday 13y ago
At the same time, I can't even remember when I last used any MS product You don't use Twitter or Facebook (their auto-translations are powered by Bing)? You don't play games? You don't use Skype? I can believe these happen to be possible for you, but if they are, it seems like you're the outlier rather than the average.

by Udo 13y ago

ryanjshaw 13y ago

You probably use services running on Microsoft-based platforms all the time if you e.g. have a bank account, use commercial airports, have insurance of any form, etc. Those big numbers you're waving away represent real, significant businesses.

Udo 13y ago
Even if you assume I didn't know that (which is somewhat audacious of you), this sounds exactly like IBM. Which was my point, and I'm not waving anything away. I guess there's nothing wrong with being another IBM per se, on the other hand they wouldn't have had to change CEOs if they were all that satisfied with their general trajectory.
- ryanjshaw 13y ago
  I'm not assuming anything, I'm reading what you wrote: > there are simply no points where their stuff intersects with my life. As to your other point: Microsoft is big. A "general trajectory" is very vague at their scale. Failure in one area (mobile, tablet) does not imply failure in another (enterprise), or indeed overall. I don't see what's wrong with trying to find a CEO who can turnaround that failure, and don't think it's really indicative of anything other than a missed opportunity.
  - Udo 13y ago
    That's nitpicking. But yes, technically you're correct, I didn't cover the cases where other people outside of my control are using MS software behind the scenes which has an influence on my life. However, we're getting very far away from the original point just for the sake of one-upmanship. I'm not asserting MS is failing. We basically agree though that there are areas where a turnaround would be exceedingly beneficial or even actually needed. I was trying to illustrate something about those areas, namely that I'd like MS to come back and make contributions to things I care about. It's not selfish, it was merely a wish to make our ecosystem richer again. And I wouldn't have guessed this opinion to be that controversial, but here we go.
    - ryanjshaw 13y ago
      It's not notpicking, and your constant attempts to belittle critical responses to your opinion is becoming annoying. Your argument is: because you don't see their products intersecting with your life, and - you imagine - that of many others, you imagine that's an undesirable position for them to be in, and that computing has largely moved on and left them behind. I'm pointing out that your argument is focused on one niche -- a big one, but by all means not one that makes them "left behind" just because they have a small presence within it. Perhaps you think Walmart [1a] is irrelevant and left behind because you never shop there? Or that Apple [1b] is irrelevant and left behind because you don't own an i*device/service? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_by_revenue http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_by_re... [1a] The largest US company by revenue [1b] The largest US company by market cap
      - Udo 13y ago
        I apologize if my comments seem belittling, I assure you they're not meant that way. In fact, condescension is the main impression I got from your first reply. At the same time I feel your tone has taken on a personal and aggressive quality that is not acceptable. I was merely trying to rectify what I thought was a miscommunication or maybe a misunderstanding of my original post. Now I see that's not likely to be productive, so excuse me for bowing out of this thread.

wil421 13y ago

You must not work in the corporate world. Microsoft has a massive foothold in enterprise: email, instant messaging (lync), excel, word, visio, project, even sharepoint and those are just the pieces you can see not to mention whats going in the backend. Being one of the only Mac users in my office I constantly have to find work arounds for everything. Sadly they will be relevant for a long time we have almost 30,000 people using windows and they wont be learning anything new for a long time if ever. I do hope the changing of the guard will help microsoft to build better products that integrate with OS's beside windows.

Udo 13y ago
> You must not work in the corporate world. That's an interesting assumption. > Microsoft has a massive foothold in enterprise There is nothing in my comment to suggest otherwise. On a meta note, I've been getting these "corrections" a lot here on HN lately, I'm just not sure why that's happening. Am I just too sensitive? Should I be more explicit in my comments? I'm not being touchy, I'd really like to know. > I do hope the changing of the guard will help microsoft to build better products that integrate with OS's beside windows. Agreed, it would be great if they aimed for integration as a more general goal too.
- gambogi 13y ago
  The second sentence you quoted appears to be backing up the assumption, or giving you a clue as to where it came from. I don't think he was "correcting" you
- Spooky23 13y ago
  I think the world has gotten a little weird. You have real life businesses today that have no Microsoft stuff in them at all. If you live in a corporate environment defined by your Windows XP desktop, it's difficult to imagine a world where grey, 9 lb laptops and horrible corporate Windows installs aren't the norm.
- swashboon 13y ago
  > I can't even remember when I last used any MS product > Microsoft has a massive foothold in enterprise > You must not work in the corporate world You said you never interact with MS products, those products have a massive foothold in the corporate world, therefore you probably do not work in the corporate world. If you are doing corporate work, not just software development (though even that too) in a corporate setting but business analysis, etc., and you do not use powerpoint/excel/visio then you are very much outside the norm. >On a meta note, I've been getting these "corrections" a lot here on HN lately, I'm just not sure why that's happening. The "corrections" as above, are an attempt to offer a different opinion that counteracts yours because it is seen as outside the normal expirience people are having and since you are getting them often I would think that is because there are many aspects of your comments that are outside the norm. >Am I just too sensitive? Should I be more explicit in my comments? I don't think so, your comment seems to add a valuable perspective from someone who does not use MS products in their daily activities, pointing that it is possible when surrounded by the right work culture.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

bovermyer 13y ago

As a counterpoint, I use Microsoft stuff more than ever now. I migrated my email from Gmail to Outlook.com, I subscribe to Office 365 Home Premium, I use Skydrive as my cloud storage provider, and I'm starting to dabble in ASP.Net for web development again. Oh, and I use (and enjoy) Windows 8. So, yes, people like you exist. But so do people like me.

hythloday 13y ago

At the same time, I can't even remember when I last used any MS product You don't use Twitter or Facebook (their auto-translations are powered by Bing)? You don't play games? You don't use Skype? I can believe these happen to be possible for you, but if they are, it seems like you're the outlier rather than the average.