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Swiss police: Screen in Tesla cars is too large

50 points by chmars 13y ago

chmars 13y ago
tl;dr: Tesla cars are have central 17" screen. It cannot be deactivated. According to the Swiss police and to public prosecutors in Zurich, Switzerland, that causes an illegal distration to car drivers since they cannot ignore the screen. According to the law, screen have to be disabled around a speed of 6 to 10 km/h. Original article in German: http://www.handelszeitung.ch/unternehmen/staatsanwalt-hat-tesla-bildschirm-im-visier-559348 http://www.handelszeitung.ch/unternehmen/staatsanwalt-hat-te...
- kjjw 13y ago
  From the article it appears the screen's 'distraction' is not their only concern. Also of concern is the layered interface which requires one to navigate down several levels of menus to do things such as 'turn the fog lights on'.
  - Pxtl 13y ago
    That sounds completely legitimate, actually. Touchscreens have no business being used to operate a car, since you have to look at them to work them, whereas I can operate every control in my old Pontiac without taking my eyes off the road.
    - cfqycwz 13y ago
      Exactly; any car UI that requires you to look at anything but the road is really bad UI. This, to me, is a much more legitimate and concrete argument than "it might be distracting."
      - k_wisniewski 13y ago
        That was exactly my thought when I saw Tesla for the first time! I love how this car looks and that it's a technological marvel, but big touchscreen requiring you to look somewhere else instead of focusing on the road is a really bad thing. Recently I've started to think why won't car manufacturers create a good multimedia interaface displayed on the windshield. It could sense when you drive faster than some really low threshold and limit amount of UI elements and distractions. When it comes to controlling infotainment systems there IMHO are two reasonable options: first are buttons on the steering wheel, and the second is employing thing like MYO, assuming it works well.
        Pxtl 13y ago
        Yeah, this is a place where the auto industry could learn from the console-gaming industry - give the users generalist, reusable physical controls and a HUD.
    - sschueller 13y ago
      Exactly, I don't know why no one else has mentioned this before. It's a huge safety problem. and DOT should have done something about it.
  - kalleboo 13y ago
    I hope the fog lights thing isn't true since that would be absolutely mad. All the things a driver needs to toggle while the car is moving should be physical knobs with solid feedback for muscle memory.
    - sschueller 13y ago
      Looks like most of it is touch, including the defroster and temp controls. http://blogs-images.forbes.com/briancaulfield/files/2012/06/teslawheeletc.jpg http://blogs-images.forbes.com/briancaulfield/files/2012/06/...
      - mantas 13y ago
        That UI is so nice and so useless at the same time :(
      - masklinn 13y ago
        Not only is it touch-only, but it's at the very bottom of the screen ensuring maximum time with eyes off the road to do anything important. edit: http://www.teslamotors.com/models/features#/interior http://www.teslamotors.com/models/features#/interior shows a video of screen operation (scroll down a bit). I really don't feel this thing is a good idea.
        Kliment 13y ago
        Did that video just reveal EM's mobile number?
  - nkuttler 13y ago
    Indeed, I find the article and the objections mentioned in it perfectly reasonable. The only question that interests me is a firmware update would be sufficient if it: - disables non-essential features above a certain speed - makes all essential features visible and usable without navigation From the quoted law it sounds like this should be enough. To be honest, I'm a little surprised that this isn't how the Tesla works. It's a car, and hiding something like the rear fog lamp behind layers of navigation sounds dangerous and should be forbidden.
    - true_religion 13y ago
      Why? Fog lights aren't an essential part of car operation, may cars simply don't have them at all.
      - arethuza 13y ago
        "In Europe and other countries adhering to UN Regulation 48, vehicles must be equipped with one or two bright red "rear fog lamps" (or "fog tail lamps"), which serve as high-intensity rear position lamps to be turned on by the driver in conditions of poor visibility to make the vehicle more visible from the rear." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_lighting#Rear_fog_lamps http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_lighting#Rear_fog_la...
        true_religion 13y ago
        Ah I see how this might be important in Europe then.
      - nkuttler 13y ago
        Wow, that really surprises me. Now I'm thinking Americans must be driving in the dark in foggy situations, or are you required to stop your vehicles when sight is limited? I mean, I realize that fog lights can give you a false sense of security, not everything is illuminated, but I found them very useful. I'm thinking extreme situations, like ten meters visibility on the Autobahn.
- marvin 13y ago
  If Swiss authorities conclude that the screen is, in fact, illegal to operate in its current configuration, it is probably only a matter of a quick software update to cars that are located in Switzerland. In fact, the car's computer system could use the GPS to determine whether it is in Switzerland or not and modify the touchscreen settings accordingly.
  - jimktrains2 13y ago
    I thought that screen controlled all the aspects of the car, radio, defrosters, fan, heating, cooling, &c if the screen is off don't all of those become unusable?
    - marvin 13y ago
      Certainly some middle ground compromise can be reached.
      - jimktrains2 13y ago
        Not if the screen has to be off. I could see a nice, slim UI with large buttons and large text being an option and only the largest allowed size have anything displayed in it. It's just a matter of if the authorities would be OK with it.
farginay 13y ago
I'd prefer to live in a society where things like this were a matter of research rather than pronouncements by bureaucrats: > "The distraction of the giant screen in the Tesla is not tolerable. I am convinced that the deflection is so great by the picture and sound while driving that accidents were due to the increase markedly. "
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- masklinn 13y ago
  > to turn on the fog lights, the driver must tap through several levels I'm sorry but that alone requires no further research, basic machinery operation should never have to go through a sight-requiring touchscreen, let alone multiple levels of touchscreen menu.
- Luc 13y ago
  That's the head of public relations for the Zurich police talking, on a ride-along with a journalist. It's not exactly a pronouncement from above carved into a stone tablet.
Tloewald 13y ago
Is it backlit display? That would be infuriating at night. From the sounds of things the Tesla's UI design is abysmal.
- acomjean 13y ago
  It is backlit. and its big, but I didn't find it distracting. My mom has a Tesla. The UI works as my Mom has no problems navigating it (although tech savy she's a little older). A lot the controls are on the screen (radio/temp). It splits too. Being big probably helps as its faster to look at. This integrated computer approach has been around for a while. I still like some physical controls.
  - cbaleanu 13y ago
    Scenario: I'm on the highway, doing 80+ mph at night and I want to turn on the rear window defroster as I cannot see properly. A touchscreen means I have to take my eyes off the road and focus on directing my right index to touch a bunch of pixels, with no physical feedback whatsoever. Staring at the backlit display made my eyes readjust to that light intensity and now when I look back at the road, well, I cannot see that well for a few seconds while my eyes adjust back. Hmm, does not sound that safe to me. PS Been driving in the US and Europe for more than 18 years now.
    - masklinn 13y ago
      > A touchscreen means I have to take my eyes off the road and focus on directing my right index to touch a bunch of pixels, with no physical feedback whatsoever. And there's worse, "commonly used controls" (such as airco and defrost) are at the very bottom of the touchscreen, at knee height.
    - acomjean 13y ago
      FWIW its not that bright. In cars with "built in navigation" they put a lot of those on smaller screens in the center console. Then they throw the radio and climate controls onto that touch screen thing. I don't see how this is significantly different from those, which have been in use for years now. I still prefer physical controls, but I'd not be honest if I said I could just reach and grab my cars climate controls without looking. I think these screens are going to be a part of the future as they provide versatility and profit. but voice control will be the best/ safest way to handle cars (although from my co-workers demo, they still need work...)
lukego 13y ago
The police here in the Zurich area can be pretty flexible with car safety. This guy got a permit to install a wood stove in his Volvo: http://metro.co.uk/2012/02/13/swiss-man-replaces-cars-broken-heater-with-a-fully-functioning-wood-burning-stove-316854/ http://metro.co.uk/2012/02/13/swiss-man-replaces-cars-broken...
- lurkinggrue 13y ago
  http://i.imgur.com/gWpOFVA.jpg http://i.imgur.com/gWpOFVA.jpg
eps 13y ago
I wouldn't dismiss this as nonsense. Swiss roads and driving rules are both safe and very sensible. People drive at limit, but limits actually make sense. There's plenty 1.5-lane two-way roads, but people are aware of others and it never causes any issues. Roundabouts are very widely used, but there are no right turns on red nor there are left turns without guaranteed right of way. You are assumed to be a good driver, but they also try and protect you from doing stupid things when you are on an "auto-pilot". And 17" multi-screen UI could easily be just the thing to put anyone into an auto-pilot mode. That said, I don't think it's a big deal for Tesla. For one, they can auto shutoff the screen in Swiss models and, for two, they can easily redesign the whole thing as needed.
- Already__Taken 13y ago
  How do you make the link that; 'Smaller, difficult to read and use interfaces that require more attention are better for operating heavy machinery. ' Sounds like a fear of change, which would be the sort of thing that needs to be backed up with research and evidence.
  - masklinn 13y ago
    > Smaller, difficult to read and use interfaces that require more attention are better for operating heavy machinery. The center console display is not "for operating machinery". That's what the dashboard is for. If your eyes are on the center console, they're nowhere near the road. And touchscreen are a horrible way to operate heavy machinery as they can't be operated by touch alone, the split second where you have to look at the screen (where good[0] physical controls would have been stored in muscle memory a long time ago) can lead to lots of damage. In fact, the article also points out to issues with this as the Tesla's touchscreen is apparently necessary to toggle fog lamps buried behind multiple screens, a completely inane proposition. [0] not all physical controls are good, e.g. I've seen decks where all controls are small identical buttons, completely unusable and genuinely dangerous
    - Already__Taken 13y ago
      I'm sorry I wasn't quite happy myself how I worded it. "operating heaving machinery" I mean that as; While driving the car you should also use this smaller, difficult to read and use interface. I'm not going to defend it to the death, it's almost certainly not the best implementation in the world, nothing in software is. But a massive screen lets you make input so much bigger than they ever could be in hardware. You can't take up 17" just for the radio if it were real, you can on a screen. Or have a 17" 'Object in path' warning light. I've had my car 5 years and can't operate the radio by touch. Or the fog light buttons on the far side of the dash.
Shivetya 13y ago
While I always thought the large display to be rather silly, really I don't need a giant rectangle when knobs would do better for some functions, like radio or better yet the sunroof, I am more convinced that most cars bombard their users with too much information. while gearheads like myself want gauges/displays for as much as we can see most people need to know only a few items, namely speed, distance till empty, and time. Most displays should be treated like idiot lights, not visible until something is outside of nominal. A large display, or even the smallish display of my car's navigation system, are mostly overkill while not using any advanced function. At most show me the radio and go away.
- rowyourboat 13y ago
  The knobs are not silly. A well designed knobs-levers-and-buttons interface can be committed to muscle memory and operated without taking your eyes off the road.
- mdorazio 13y ago
  Keep in mind that traditional radio is rapidly becoming an unappealing choice for audio consumption by tech-savvy drivers. Slacker, iHeart, Pandora, Bluetooth streaming, etc. are slowly taking over the space and none of those can be interacted with via traditional physical buttons. I, too, strongly dislike the lack of tactile feedback on touch screens, and the lack of physical buttons for simple things like opening a sunroof is really annoying. But in reality it's becoming more and more difficult to keep all the hard buttons on a dash. Drivers and passengers want more options, customization, and media in their cars, not less. If you ignore their preferences too much they're just going to pick up their phones and use them while driving instead of messing with a clunky interface and screen lock-outs.
  - Pxtl 13y ago
    > and none of those can be interacted with via traditional physical buttons. Was with you until this point. Yes, the UI is trickier, but if YouTube and Netflix and Twitch et al can be hammered into supporting the Roku and other non-touch-enabled set-top boxen, then the various audio-streamers need to get support for non-touchscreen-interfaces as well. Stick a D-pad and a "select/back" button on the steering wheel and do good old-fashioned arrow-key menu-nav.
vrikis 13y ago
Call me backwards, but I got my first car last year--a 12 year old VW Polo--and I couldn't be happier with its basic layout. Physical buttons I can find without ever looking away are the best, and I hope I never get a car like the Tesla, that's replaced all the physical controls with one huge touchscreen... And SatNav? Honestly, I don't care about that... Look at street signs and maybe pull over and study the map rather than trying to figure out things whilst driving?
- ergzay 13y ago
  You just got your first car and you're talking like you're 50 years old... What's the world come to. Having a large screen satnav is a lot better than using my iPhone (which I do normally).
  - vrikis 13y ago
    But both are distracting... Why are people so obsessed with getting directions by looking at a map WHILST DRIVING... I do occasionally use my phone as a navigator, but I only use the voice and listen to the commands, but I find it ridiculous how many people take their eyes off the road... I don't understand why you'd want a touch screen for everything though - like I said, even for changing the temperature whilst driving seems impossible on a touchscreen device whilst driving...
mantas 13y ago
>> Only to have to turn on the fog lights, the driver must tap through several levels Whaaat? That looks like a huge mistake in terms of UI. I was dreaming of getting Tesla once we got enough electric-gas-stations in Europe. But I wouldn't ever buy a car that shifts so much control to touch screen.
- a3n 13y ago
  I don't even like doing something like that on my laptop. The kind of sustained attention required to navigate a touch screen (no tactile feedback, must look) through multiple levels while driving ... I don't even see how this got approved for driving in the US.
- 3pt14159 13y ago
  I thought the Tesla S didn't come with fog lights anymore.
  - masklinn 13y ago
    You can't sell a car without rear fog lights in most of Europe: it's mandated by UN Regulation 48 "Installation of Lighting and Lighting-Signalling Equipment" (formerly UNECE 48).
    - 3pt14159 13y ago
      Ah, well there you go. That is why they scurried them away somewhere.
rowyourboat 13y ago
The problem with the Tesla screen, in a non-Swiss-specific nutshell: A touch screen cannot be operated without looking at it. There are things that you would regularly expect to operate while driving that can only be operated by touch screen in a Model S. Guaranteed distraction. I think the Swiss law makes sense. And if I think about it further, this amount of distraction should not be legal on any human-operated vehicle anywhere.
- NickM 13y ago
  There are things that you would regularly expect to operate while driving that can only be operated by touch screen in a Model S. What things are there? I don't own a Model S, but am considering buying one, so I'm genuinely curious. I agree that you probably don't want to have to use the touchscreen while you're driving, but I was under the impression that most things could also be controlled via steering wheel buttons, so I assumed this wouldn't be a major issue. Obviously there's some stuff you can't do via steering wheel controls, like web browsing, but then again I wouldn't want to browse the web while driving anyway. I've also been told that web browsing is disabled while the car is moving, but I'm not 100% sure if this is correct or not.
k-mcgrady 13y ago
From what I'm reading in the comments using a touchscreen to do basic functions that people use every time they are driving is a very bad UI decision. Forcing people to take their eyes off the road and navigate a touch screen just to switch on fog lights is ridiculous. Why couldn't they just build this stuff around the steering wheel like every other manufacturer? It's not a broken model, it doesn't need fixed.
mkuhn 13y ago
I just read through the article and the headline here is a big overstatement. The article says that according to the speaker of the police of Zurich who test rode a Tesla that the screen is very distracting. Based on the complaint a district attorney is now starting an investigation. Switzerland is one of the countries with the highest density of Teslas and this is an issue that is only coming up now which should mean that the screens passed initial government screening. The article does raise usability questions and mentions how other cars with large screens handle this problem (e.g. screens visible by the driver stopping to show media while the car is driving, or impeding functionality while driving).
codex 13y ago
There is a slight whiff of desperation around many things Tesla does. For a while that was a real risk of the company not surviving, and they pulled out all the stops; when marketing and safety were at odds, marketing won. This over-the-top, "jump the shark" touchscreen is excess right out of the 80s. The adaptive air suspension is another example of marketing over common sense.
jmulho 13y ago
A 17" touch screen interface could actually be safer than the normal interfaces you find in cars. Is there any interface in a car that you can use without diverting your eyes from the road? Horn, blinkers, wipers, radio volume maybe. A touch screen interface with 4 inch buttons is going to divert your eyes for less time than the normal 1/4 inch physical buttons. See Fitts's Law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts's_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts's_law. Good organization, large buttons, shallow menus, limited options -- should be safer.
ergzay 13y ago
Some "hacker news" this is, you guys are all anti-technology.

50 points by chmars 13y ago

tl;dr: Tesla cars are have central 17" screen. It cannot be deactivated. According to the Swiss police and to public prosecutors in Zurich, Switzerland, that causes an illegal distration to car drivers since they cannot ignore the screen. According to the law, screen have to be disabled around a speed of 6 to 10 km/h. Original article in German: http://www.handelszeitung.ch/unternehmen/staatsanwalt-hat-tesla-bildschirm-im-visier-559348 http://www.handelszeitung.ch/unternehmen/staatsanwalt-hat-te...

kjjw 13y ago
From the article it appears the screen's 'distraction' is not their only concern. Also of concern is the layered interface which requires one to navigate down several levels of menus to do things such as 'turn the fog lights on'.
- Pxtl 13y ago
  That sounds completely legitimate, actually. Touchscreens have no business being used to operate a car, since you have to look at them to work them, whereas I can operate every control in my old Pontiac without taking my eyes off the road.
  - cfqycwz 13y ago
    Exactly; any car UI that requires you to look at anything but the road is really bad UI. This, to me, is a much more legitimate and concrete argument than "it might be distracting."
    - k_wisniewski 13y ago
      That was exactly my thought when I saw Tesla for the first time! I love how this car looks and that it's a technological marvel, but big touchscreen requiring you to look somewhere else instead of focusing on the road is a really bad thing. Recently I've started to think why won't car manufacturers create a good multimedia interaface displayed on the windshield. It could sense when you drive faster than some really low threshold and limit amount of UI elements and distractions. When it comes to controlling infotainment systems there IMHO are two reasonable options: first are buttons on the steering wheel, and the second is employing thing like MYO, assuming it works well.
      - Pxtl 13y ago
        Yeah, this is a place where the auto industry could learn from the console-gaming industry - give the users generalist, reusable physical controls and a HUD.
  - sschueller 13y ago
    Exactly, I don't know why no one else has mentioned this before. It's a huge safety problem. and DOT should have done something about it.
- kalleboo 13y ago
  I hope the fog lights thing isn't true since that would be absolutely mad. All the things a driver needs to toggle while the car is moving should be physical knobs with solid feedback for muscle memory.
  - sschueller 13y ago
    Looks like most of it is touch, including the defroster and temp controls. http://blogs-images.forbes.com/briancaulfield/files/2012/06/teslawheeletc.jpg http://blogs-images.forbes.com/briancaulfield/files/2012/06/...
    - mantas 13y ago
      That UI is so nice and so useless at the same time :(
    - masklinn 13y ago
      Not only is it touch-only, but it's at the very bottom of the screen ensuring maximum time with eyes off the road to do anything important. edit: http://www.teslamotors.com/models/features#/interior http://www.teslamotors.com/models/features#/interior shows a video of screen operation (scroll down a bit). I really don't feel this thing is a good idea.
      - Kliment 13y ago
        Did that video just reveal EM's mobile number?
- nkuttler 13y ago
  Indeed, I find the article and the objections mentioned in it perfectly reasonable. The only question that interests me is a firmware update would be sufficient if it: - disables non-essential features above a certain speed - makes all essential features visible and usable without navigation From the quoted law it sounds like this should be enough. To be honest, I'm a little surprised that this isn't how the Tesla works. It's a car, and hiding something like the rear fog lamp behind layers of navigation sounds dangerous and should be forbidden.
  - true_religion 13y ago
    Why? Fog lights aren't an essential part of car operation, may cars simply don't have them at all.
    - arethuza 13y ago
      "In Europe and other countries adhering to UN Regulation 48, vehicles must be equipped with one or two bright red "rear fog lamps" (or "fog tail lamps"), which serve as high-intensity rear position lamps to be turned on by the driver in conditions of poor visibility to make the vehicle more visible from the rear." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_lighting#Rear_fog_lamps http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_lighting#Rear_fog_la...
      - true_religion 13y ago
        Ah I see how this might be important in Europe then.
    - nkuttler 13y ago
      Wow, that really surprises me. Now I'm thinking Americans must be driving in the dark in foggy situations, or are you required to stop your vehicles when sight is limited? I mean, I realize that fog lights can give you a false sense of security, not everything is illuminated, but I found them very useful. I'm thinking extreme situations, like ten meters visibility on the Autobahn.
marvin 13y ago
If Swiss authorities conclude that the screen is, in fact, illegal to operate in its current configuration, it is probably only a matter of a quick software update to cars that are located in Switzerland. In fact, the car's computer system could use the GPS to determine whether it is in Switzerland or not and modify the touchscreen settings accordingly.
- jimktrains2 13y ago
  I thought that screen controlled all the aspects of the car, radio, defrosters, fan, heating, cooling, &c if the screen is off don't all of those become unusable?
  - marvin 13y ago
    Certainly some middle ground compromise can be reached.
    - jimktrains2 13y ago
      Not if the screen has to be off. I could see a nice, slim UI with large buttons and large text being an option and only the largest allowed size have anything displayed in it. It's just a matter of if the authorities would be OK with it.

farginay 13y ago

I'd prefer to live in a society where things like this were a matter of research rather than pronouncements by bureaucrats: > "The distraction of the giant screen in the Tesla is not tolerable. I am convinced that the deflection is so great by the picture and sound while driving that accidents were due to the increase markedly. "

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
masklinn 13y ago
> to turn on the fog lights, the driver must tap through several levels I'm sorry but that alone requires no further research, basic machinery operation should never have to go through a sight-requiring touchscreen, let alone multiple levels of touchscreen menu.
Luc 13y ago
That's the head of public relations for the Zurich police talking, on a ride-along with a journalist. It's not exactly a pronouncement from above carved into a stone tablet.

Tloewald 13y ago

Is it backlit display? That would be infuriating at night. From the sounds of things the Tesla's UI design is abysmal.

acomjean 13y ago
It is backlit. and its big, but I didn't find it distracting. My mom has a Tesla. The UI works as my Mom has no problems navigating it (although tech savy she's a little older). A lot the controls are on the screen (radio/temp). It splits too. Being big probably helps as its faster to look at. This integrated computer approach has been around for a while. I still like some physical controls.
- cbaleanu 13y ago
  Scenario: I'm on the highway, doing 80+ mph at night and I want to turn on the rear window defroster as I cannot see properly. A touchscreen means I have to take my eyes off the road and focus on directing my right index to touch a bunch of pixels, with no physical feedback whatsoever. Staring at the backlit display made my eyes readjust to that light intensity and now when I look back at the road, well, I cannot see that well for a few seconds while my eyes adjust back. Hmm, does not sound that safe to me. PS Been driving in the US and Europe for more than 18 years now.
  - masklinn 13y ago
    > A touchscreen means I have to take my eyes off the road and focus on directing my right index to touch a bunch of pixels, with no physical feedback whatsoever. And there's worse, "commonly used controls" (such as airco and defrost) are at the very bottom of the touchscreen, at knee height.
  - acomjean 13y ago
    FWIW its not that bright. In cars with "built in navigation" they put a lot of those on smaller screens in the center console. Then they throw the radio and climate controls onto that touch screen thing. I don't see how this is significantly different from those, which have been in use for years now. I still prefer physical controls, but I'd not be honest if I said I could just reach and grab my cars climate controls without looking. I think these screens are going to be a part of the future as they provide versatility and profit. but voice control will be the best/ safest way to handle cars (although from my co-workers demo, they still need work...)

lukego 13y ago

The police here in the Zurich area can be pretty flexible with car safety. This guy got a permit to install a wood stove in his Volvo: http://metro.co.uk/2012/02/13/swiss-man-replaces-cars-broken-heater-with-a-fully-functioning-wood-burning-stove-316854/ http://metro.co.uk/2012/02/13/swiss-man-replaces-cars-broken...

lurkinggrue 13y ago
http://i.imgur.com/gWpOFVA.jpg http://i.imgur.com/gWpOFVA.jpg

eps 13y ago

I wouldn't dismiss this as nonsense. Swiss roads and driving rules are both safe and very sensible. People drive at limit, but limits actually make sense. There's plenty 1.5-lane two-way roads, but people are aware of others and it never causes any issues. Roundabouts are very widely used, but there are no right turns on red nor there are left turns without guaranteed right of way. You are assumed to be a good driver, but they also try and protect you from doing stupid things when you are on an "auto-pilot". And 17" multi-screen UI could easily be just the thing to put anyone into an auto-pilot mode. That said, I don't think it's a big deal for Tesla. For one, they can auto shutoff the screen in Swiss models and, for two, they can easily redesign the whole thing as needed.

Already__Taken 13y ago
How do you make the link that; 'Smaller, difficult to read and use interfaces that require more attention are better for operating heavy machinery. ' Sounds like a fear of change, which would be the sort of thing that needs to be backed up with research and evidence.
- masklinn 13y ago
  > Smaller, difficult to read and use interfaces that require more attention are better for operating heavy machinery. The center console display is not "for operating machinery". That's what the dashboard is for. If your eyes are on the center console, they're nowhere near the road. And touchscreen are a horrible way to operate heavy machinery as they can't be operated by touch alone, the split second where you have to look at the screen (where good[0] physical controls would have been stored in muscle memory a long time ago) can lead to lots of damage. In fact, the article also points out to issues with this as the Tesla's touchscreen is apparently necessary to toggle fog lamps buried behind multiple screens, a completely inane proposition. [0] not all physical controls are good, e.g. I've seen decks where all controls are small identical buttons, completely unusable and genuinely dangerous
  - Already__Taken 13y ago
    I'm sorry I wasn't quite happy myself how I worded it. "operating heaving machinery" I mean that as; While driving the car you should also use this smaller, difficult to read and use interface. I'm not going to defend it to the death, it's almost certainly not the best implementation in the world, nothing in software is. But a massive screen lets you make input so much bigger than they ever could be in hardware. You can't take up 17" just for the radio if it were real, you can on a screen. Or have a 17" 'Object in path' warning light. I've had my car 5 years and can't operate the radio by touch. Or the fog light buttons on the far side of the dash.

Shivetya 13y ago

While I always thought the large display to be rather silly, really I don't need a giant rectangle when knobs would do better for some functions, like radio or better yet the sunroof, I am more convinced that most cars bombard their users with too much information. while gearheads like myself want gauges/displays for as much as we can see most people need to know only a few items, namely speed, distance till empty, and time. Most displays should be treated like idiot lights, not visible until something is outside of nominal. A large display, or even the smallish display of my car's navigation system, are mostly overkill while not using any advanced function. At most show me the radio and go away.

rowyourboat 13y ago
The knobs are not silly. A well designed knobs-levers-and-buttons interface can be committed to muscle memory and operated without taking your eyes off the road.
mdorazio 13y ago
Keep in mind that traditional radio is rapidly becoming an unappealing choice for audio consumption by tech-savvy drivers. Slacker, iHeart, Pandora, Bluetooth streaming, etc. are slowly taking over the space and none of those can be interacted with via traditional physical buttons. I, too, strongly dislike the lack of tactile feedback on touch screens, and the lack of physical buttons for simple things like opening a sunroof is really annoying. But in reality it's becoming more and more difficult to keep all the hard buttons on a dash. Drivers and passengers want more options, customization, and media in their cars, not less. If you ignore their preferences too much they're just going to pick up their phones and use them while driving instead of messing with a clunky interface and screen lock-outs.
- Pxtl 13y ago
  > and none of those can be interacted with via traditional physical buttons. Was with you until this point. Yes, the UI is trickier, but if YouTube and Netflix and Twitch et al can be hammered into supporting the Roku and other non-touch-enabled set-top boxen, then the various audio-streamers need to get support for non-touchscreen-interfaces as well. Stick a D-pad and a "select/back" button on the steering wheel and do good old-fashioned arrow-key menu-nav.

vrikis 13y ago

Call me backwards, but I got my first car last year--a 12 year old VW Polo--and I couldn't be happier with its basic layout. Physical buttons I can find without ever looking away are the best, and I hope I never get a car like the Tesla, that's replaced all the physical controls with one huge touchscreen... And SatNav? Honestly, I don't care about that... Look at street signs and maybe pull over and study the map rather than trying to figure out things whilst driving?

ergzay 13y ago
You just got your first car and you're talking like you're 50 years old... What's the world come to. Having a large screen satnav is a lot better than using my iPhone (which I do normally).
- vrikis 13y ago
  But both are distracting... Why are people so obsessed with getting directions by looking at a map WHILST DRIVING... I do occasionally use my phone as a navigator, but I only use the voice and listen to the commands, but I find it ridiculous how many people take their eyes off the road... I don't understand why you'd want a touch screen for everything though - like I said, even for changing the temperature whilst driving seems impossible on a touchscreen device whilst driving...

mantas 13y ago

>> Only to have to turn on the fog lights, the driver must tap through several levels Whaaat? That looks like a huge mistake in terms of UI. I was dreaming of getting Tesla once we got enough electric-gas-stations in Europe. But I wouldn't ever buy a car that shifts so much control to touch screen.

a3n 13y ago
I don't even like doing something like that on my laptop. The kind of sustained attention required to navigate a touch screen (no tactile feedback, must look) through multiple levels while driving ... I don't even see how this got approved for driving in the US.
3pt14159 13y ago
I thought the Tesla S didn't come with fog lights anymore.
- masklinn 13y ago
  You can't sell a car without rear fog lights in most of Europe: it's mandated by UN Regulation 48 "Installation of Lighting and Lighting-Signalling Equipment" (formerly UNECE 48).
  - 3pt14159 13y ago
    Ah, well there you go. That is why they scurried them away somewhere.

rowyourboat 13y ago

The problem with the Tesla screen, in a non-Swiss-specific nutshell: A touch screen cannot be operated without looking at it. There are things that you would regularly expect to operate while driving that can only be operated by touch screen in a Model S. Guaranteed distraction. I think the Swiss law makes sense. And if I think about it further, this amount of distraction should not be legal on any human-operated vehicle anywhere.

NickM 13y ago
There are things that you would regularly expect to operate while driving that can only be operated by touch screen in a Model S. What things are there? I don't own a Model S, but am considering buying one, so I'm genuinely curious. I agree that you probably don't want to have to use the touchscreen while you're driving, but I was under the impression that most things could also be controlled via steering wheel buttons, so I assumed this wouldn't be a major issue. Obviously there's some stuff you can't do via steering wheel controls, like web browsing, but then again I wouldn't want to browse the web while driving anyway. I've also been told that web browsing is disabled while the car is moving, but I'm not 100% sure if this is correct or not.

k-mcgrady 13y ago

From what I'm reading in the comments using a touchscreen to do basic functions that people use every time they are driving is a very bad UI decision. Forcing people to take their eyes off the road and navigate a touch screen just to switch on fog lights is ridiculous. Why couldn't they just build this stuff around the steering wheel like every other manufacturer? It's not a broken model, it doesn't need fixed.

mkuhn 13y ago

I just read through the article and the headline here is a big overstatement. The article says that according to the speaker of the police of Zurich who test rode a Tesla that the screen is very distracting. Based on the complaint a district attorney is now starting an investigation. Switzerland is one of the countries with the highest density of Teslas and this is an issue that is only coming up now which should mean that the screens passed initial government screening. The article does raise usability questions and mentions how other cars with large screens handle this problem (e.g. screens visible by the driver stopping to show media while the car is driving, or impeding functionality while driving).

codex 13y ago

There is a slight whiff of desperation around many things Tesla does. For a while that was a real risk of the company not surviving, and they pulled out all the stops; when marketing and safety were at odds, marketing won. This over-the-top, "jump the shark" touchscreen is excess right out of the 80s. The adaptive air suspension is another example of marketing over common sense.

jmulho 13y ago

A 17" touch screen interface could actually be safer than the normal interfaces you find in cars. Is there any interface in a car that you can use without diverting your eyes from the road? Horn, blinkers, wipers, radio volume maybe. A touch screen interface with 4 inch buttons is going to divert your eyes for less time than the normal 1/4 inch physical buttons. See Fitts's Law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts's_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts's_law. Good organization, large buttons, shallow menus, limited options -- should be safer.

ergzay 13y ago

Some "hacker news" this is, you guys are all anti-technology.