7 ms·

Agree. Also, it's a bit misleading to suggest she's created a washing machine that "runs without electricity". By the same logic, Fred Flintstone (or someone in

by r0h1n 13y ago

Agree. Also, it's a bit misleading to suggest she's created a washing machine that "runs without electricity". By the same logic, Fred Flintstone (or someone in his era) should be credited for designing a car that "ran without electricity". At this stage of mankind's industrialization, it's disingenuous to look at a human powered machine as an improvement over an electricity powered one.

acqq 13y ago
It's a huge improvement over holding the stuff full of skin-attacking chemicals in the hands for extended periods of time. Women in India and not only there have to do that daily.
- FooBarWidget 13y ago
  Because gloves are too expensive? Never mind that though. Pedalling is a lot easier than washing clothes by hand. It's better for your back too.
  - jxf 13y ago
    Gloves don't work. The chemicals impregnate the gloves and then the situation's even worse, since they're being pressed against your skin for long periods of time.
    - FooBarWidget 13y ago
      What? Latex gloves are water proof. Where can I learn more about the chemicals impregnating the gloves?
      - jxf 13y ago
        Here's a test for you: dry your hands, then take a pair of dry latex gloves, then dunk your hands in a soapy sink for three seconds. Take off the gloves. Your hands will be at least a little damp and soapy. How did that happen, if latex is waterproof? It's because your hand doesn't make a perfect seal with the glove. Also, dish soap and other detergents are surfactants, which reduce the surface tension of water. That makes it easier for it to get into tight spaces, like the space between the glove's edge and your hand. Finally, latex is soluble in many kinds of oil/petroleum-containing product (many waxes, some heavy-duty cleaners, etc.), so if you're wearing latex gloves, you'll literally be dissolving latex onto your skin and degrading the gloves. Gross. If that's what a three-second test will do, imagine how it'd feel to wash clothes for thirty minutes. Not pleasant.
        toomuchtodo 13y ago
        Perhaps there is a market for latex gloves that are snug and seal better at the wrist (similar to the male condom).
        hnal943 13y ago
        or perhaps dish gloves (which already exist) are long so they do not become submerged in the water.
        walshemj 13y ago
        No thats the sweat from your skin :-) Trust me years ago I worked on on project that was simulating a nuke reactor (the CFR breeder) and had to spend an afternoon wrapping a dummy fuel pin with insulation in full bunny suit, respirator and latex gloves on a very hot day when I took the gloves off there must have been 50 cc's of fluid in the gloves finger tips.
        enraged_camel 13y ago
        >>Here's a test for you: dry your hands, then take a pair of dry latex gloves, then dunk your hands in a soapy sink for three seconds. Take off the gloves. Your hands will be at least a little damp and soapy. How did that happen, if latex is waterproof? It's because your hand doesn't make a perfect seal with the glove. No, it's because your hands generate sweat, which cannot evaporate due to being completely sealed in by the latex. Here's a test for you: fill a latex glove with water and see if it is leaking any. You will see that it is completely waterproof.
        jxf 13y ago
        You'll get sweat too, but there'll be soap from the sink in there. Unless you have some very unique genes, that didn't come from your hands! The soap got in through the edge of the glove, not through the glove. Your test won't demonstrate anything other than that latex can hold water, which is not what I was trying to show. I wasn't kidding when I said to try it. :)
  - DanBC 13y ago
    Safety equipment is valuable. Thus, it is stolen or sold to get money to buy food.
    - gohrt 13y ago
      Washing machines are valuable. This, they are stolen or sold to get money to buy food.
    - vinceguidry 13y ago
      It's not so much that they're valuable, it's that it's too easy for assholes to insist that the poor girls doing the washing don't need / deserve them.
      - DanBC 13y ago
        Well, yes, that would be a problem. There is a problem with risk assessment in general. BBC had a few useful programmes. One was about young peoe visiting developing nations to see how luxuries are produced. They visited the Accra toxic electronic equipment dump. People take wiring and burn the insulation off to get the copper. These cable bonfires release huge clouds of toxic smoke. Now one has any kind of mask. The programme showed a boy smashing capacitors off a PCB with a rock to sell them. I think, but do not know, that if je'd had a pair of snips (for the compnent leads) and some way to get the copper / gold off the PCB that he'd have had a more valuable resource to sell. It was a profoundly depressing, distressing, view. There was another programme called Welcome To India. This showed poor people reclaiming gold. They visited the jewelery district and swept the roads. They used acids and mercury and heat to turn this dust and grit into tiny gold grains. Part of the process was taking aciding grit in the palm of their hand and stirring it with their fingers. Again, no glasses or masks or gloves. Indian bloggers - are there any good blogs showing everyday life in India? Not just the poverty, but the life of a broad cross section of the population?
  - acqq 13y ago
    Yes, gloves are too expensive and also don't work for people who wash today by hands. I see it's hard to imagine that to you, so try with this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Below_Poverty_Line_(India) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Below_Poverty_Line_(India) 400 INR monthly per head is less than 7 USD per head per month to survive.
    - jetru 13y ago
      Thank you.
  - youWontLikeThis 13y ago
    Gloves, now coming to every cornershop in your shantytown. Free loaf of bread for the 1st happy customer.
  - umsm 13y ago
    I don't think you've ever washed anything by hand.
- r0h1n 13y ago
  That's an inference you see to be making, because I see no evidence in the story that this machine is being targeted at households too poor to have (or afford) electricity in their homes. Just for reference, the cheapest semi-automatic washing machine I could find online is Rs.3990 or ~$65 [0] (there are cheaper models available offline, usually). [0] http://compareindia.in.com/specification/washing-machines/akai-asaw60-t/282292 http://compareindia.in.com/specification/washing-machines/ak...
  - nmridul 13y ago
    Its not about affording electricity. Its availability of electricity. Even when you can afford a washing machine, electricity shortage makes it impossible to run the machine. Sometimes the power goes right in the middle of a wash cycle and you have to wait couple of hours before the power is restored. And in summer, power cuts are more prevalent.
codingdave 13y ago
Not every location in this world has pervasive electricity. For example, many towns in the Amazon have to ship in propane to run generators that run just for a couple hours of power each day. Locations that do have constant power also have a serious infrastructure to create that power, which burns non-renewable resources in quantities that would surprise most people. Electricity is awesome, but until we truly have renewable power in all areas of the world, devices like this are good things.
walshemj 13y ago
Yes my granny had a manual washing machine and a mangle too.
prakashk 13y ago
> it's a bit misleading to suggest she's created a washing machine that "runs without electricity" I don't think it's misleading at all. If electricity and electric cars were available and commonplace in Fred Flintstone's era, and he designed a car that used no electricity, then he could and should be credited for designing a car that "ran without electricity". Now, if someone said this machine ran without energy, that would me not only misleading, but a lie. > At this stage of mankind's industrialization, it's disingenuous to look at a human powered machine as an improvement over an electricity powered one. That's a legitimate point, and one that is worth discussing about.
adamwong246 13y ago
That's not fair at all! Look at our affluent, american lifestyle. We use massive amounts of electricity, water and chemicals to wash clothes, then get in our petroleum powered machines and drive to a place called a "gym" where we pedal a bike that goes nowhere. And we pay for the privilege! Perhaps the solution is NOT to make trivial tasks ever more trivially easy? Perhaps humans need a little resistance training in their daily lives? There is a point where things are too easy and the average american's health is proof of this. This product can improve the lives, not just of those without electricity, but also those with electricity.
- gohrt 13y ago
  May I infer that you, an informed, rational, and affluent person, live in a rural Indian village by choice, as it is better for your health?
  - adamwong246 13y ago
    You have made some sort of logical fallacy... I'm not sure which but you are stretching my words beyond the breaking point by framing the situation in a black-or-white, all-or-nothing way. There are some benefits to living in a rural Indian village- you get more exercise then I do in my natural habitat. That's not saying that it's healthier to live there or that I would ever voluntarily move there. Obviously, I have more choices, better health and more wealth living in the states. But living in front of a macbook also has downsides- my arteries are clogging as we speak. So I have to offset all my inactivity on my bike or at the gym. With this washing machine, I can get everything I want and need- clean clothes, lower electricity bills and exercise. And so too can a woman in India get what SHE needs- clean clothes, free time and less toil. But stating the obvious- that Americans needs more exercise and to use less energy- is not even close to advocating for living in a rural Indian village.
    - Crake 13y ago
      >There are some benefits to living in a rural Indian village- you get more exercise then I do in my natural habitat. Speak for yourself. My natural habitat has great public transit, so I get my exercise built into my commute.
lozf 13y ago
Written like someone who has no experience of how common power outages are in many parts of India, not to mention the cost / scarcity of what "rich westerners" recognise as a Washing Machine. -- sent from a hut on the beach in Goa.

by r0h1n 13y ago

acqq 13y ago

It's a huge improvement over holding the stuff full of skin-attacking chemicals in the hands for extended periods of time. Women in India and not only there have to do that daily.

FooBarWidget 13y ago
Because gloves are too expensive? Never mind that though. Pedalling is a lot easier than washing clothes by hand. It's better for your back too.
- jxf 13y ago
  Gloves don't work. The chemicals impregnate the gloves and then the situation's even worse, since they're being pressed against your skin for long periods of time.
  - FooBarWidget 13y ago
    What? Latex gloves are water proof. Where can I learn more about the chemicals impregnating the gloves?
    - jxf 13y ago
      Here's a test for you: dry your hands, then take a pair of dry latex gloves, then dunk your hands in a soapy sink for three seconds. Take off the gloves. Your hands will be at least a little damp and soapy. How did that happen, if latex is waterproof? It's because your hand doesn't make a perfect seal with the glove. Also, dish soap and other detergents are surfactants, which reduce the surface tension of water. That makes it easier for it to get into tight spaces, like the space between the glove's edge and your hand. Finally, latex is soluble in many kinds of oil/petroleum-containing product (many waxes, some heavy-duty cleaners, etc.), so if you're wearing latex gloves, you'll literally be dissolving latex onto your skin and degrading the gloves. Gross. If that's what a three-second test will do, imagine how it'd feel to wash clothes for thirty minutes. Not pleasant.
      - toomuchtodo 13y ago
        Perhaps there is a market for latex gloves that are snug and seal better at the wrist (similar to the male condom).
        hnal943 13y ago
        or perhaps dish gloves (which already exist) are long so they do not become submerged in the water.
      - walshemj 13y ago
        No thats the sweat from your skin :-) Trust me years ago I worked on on project that was simulating a nuke reactor (the CFR breeder) and had to spend an afternoon wrapping a dummy fuel pin with insulation in full bunny suit, respirator and latex gloves on a very hot day when I took the gloves off there must have been 50 cc's of fluid in the gloves finger tips.
      - enraged_camel 13y ago
        >>Here's a test for you: dry your hands, then take a pair of dry latex gloves, then dunk your hands in a soapy sink for three seconds. Take off the gloves. Your hands will be at least a little damp and soapy. How did that happen, if latex is waterproof? It's because your hand doesn't make a perfect seal with the glove. No, it's because your hands generate sweat, which cannot evaporate due to being completely sealed in by the latex. Here's a test for you: fill a latex glove with water and see if it is leaking any. You will see that it is completely waterproof.
        jxf 13y ago
        You'll get sweat too, but there'll be soap from the sink in there. Unless you have some very unique genes, that didn't come from your hands! The soap got in through the edge of the glove, not through the glove. Your test won't demonstrate anything other than that latex can hold water, which is not what I was trying to show. I wasn't kidding when I said to try it. :)
- DanBC 13y ago
  Safety equipment is valuable. Thus, it is stolen or sold to get money to buy food.
  - gohrt 13y ago
    Washing machines are valuable. This, they are stolen or sold to get money to buy food.
  - vinceguidry 13y ago
    It's not so much that they're valuable, it's that it's too easy for assholes to insist that the poor girls doing the washing don't need / deserve them.
    - DanBC 13y ago
      Well, yes, that would be a problem. There is a problem with risk assessment in general. BBC had a few useful programmes. One was about young peoe visiting developing nations to see how luxuries are produced. They visited the Accra toxic electronic equipment dump. People take wiring and burn the insulation off to get the copper. These cable bonfires release huge clouds of toxic smoke. Now one has any kind of mask. The programme showed a boy smashing capacitors off a PCB with a rock to sell them. I think, but do not know, that if je'd had a pair of snips (for the compnent leads) and some way to get the copper / gold off the PCB that he'd have had a more valuable resource to sell. It was a profoundly depressing, distressing, view. There was another programme called Welcome To India. This showed poor people reclaiming gold. They visited the jewelery district and swept the roads. They used acids and mercury and heat to turn this dust and grit into tiny gold grains. Part of the process was taking aciding grit in the palm of their hand and stirring it with their fingers. Again, no glasses or masks or gloves. Indian bloggers - are there any good blogs showing everyday life in India? Not just the poverty, but the life of a broad cross section of the population?
- acqq 13y ago
  Yes, gloves are too expensive and also don't work for people who wash today by hands. I see it's hard to imagine that to you, so try with this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Below_Poverty_Line_(India) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Below_Poverty_Line_(India) 400 INR monthly per head is less than 7 USD per head per month to survive.
  - jetru 13y ago
    Thank you.
- youWontLikeThis 13y ago
  Gloves, now coming to every cornershop in your shantytown. Free loaf of bread for the 1st happy customer.
- umsm 13y ago
  I don't think you've ever washed anything by hand.
r0h1n 13y ago
That's an inference you see to be making, because I see no evidence in the story that this machine is being targeted at households too poor to have (or afford) electricity in their homes. Just for reference, the cheapest semi-automatic washing machine I could find online is Rs.3990 or ~$65 [0] (there are cheaper models available offline, usually). [0] http://compareindia.in.com/specification/washing-machines/akai-asaw60-t/282292 http://compareindia.in.com/specification/washing-machines/ak...
- nmridul 13y ago
  Its not about affording electricity. Its availability of electricity. Even when you can afford a washing machine, electricity shortage makes it impossible to run the machine. Sometimes the power goes right in the middle of a wash cycle and you have to wait couple of hours before the power is restored. And in summer, power cuts are more prevalent.

codingdave 13y ago

Not every location in this world has pervasive electricity. For example, many towns in the Amazon have to ship in propane to run generators that run just for a couple hours of power each day. Locations that do have constant power also have a serious infrastructure to create that power, which burns non-renewable resources in quantities that would surprise most people. Electricity is awesome, but until we truly have renewable power in all areas of the world, devices like this are good things.

walshemj 13y ago

Yes my granny had a manual washing machine and a mangle too.

prakashk 13y ago

> it's a bit misleading to suggest she's created a washing machine that "runs without electricity" I don't think it's misleading at all. If electricity and electric cars were available and commonplace in Fred Flintstone's era, and he designed a car that used no electricity, then he could and should be credited for designing a car that "ran without electricity". Now, if someone said this machine ran without energy, that would me not only misleading, but a lie. > At this stage of mankind's industrialization, it's disingenuous to look at a human powered machine as an improvement over an electricity powered one. That's a legitimate point, and one that is worth discussing about.

adamwong246 13y ago

That's not fair at all! Look at our affluent, american lifestyle. We use massive amounts of electricity, water and chemicals to wash clothes, then get in our petroleum powered machines and drive to a place called a "gym" where we pedal a bike that goes nowhere. And we pay for the privilege! Perhaps the solution is NOT to make trivial tasks ever more trivially easy? Perhaps humans need a little resistance training in their daily lives? There is a point where things are too easy and the average american's health is proof of this. This product can improve the lives, not just of those without electricity, but also those with electricity.

gohrt 13y ago
May I infer that you, an informed, rational, and affluent person, live in a rural Indian village by choice, as it is better for your health?
- adamwong246 13y ago
  You have made some sort of logical fallacy... I'm not sure which but you are stretching my words beyond the breaking point by framing the situation in a black-or-white, all-or-nothing way. There are some benefits to living in a rural Indian village- you get more exercise then I do in my natural habitat. That's not saying that it's healthier to live there or that I would ever voluntarily move there. Obviously, I have more choices, better health and more wealth living in the states. But living in front of a macbook also has downsides- my arteries are clogging as we speak. So I have to offset all my inactivity on my bike or at the gym. With this washing machine, I can get everything I want and need- clean clothes, lower electricity bills and exercise. And so too can a woman in India get what SHE needs- clean clothes, free time and less toil. But stating the obvious- that Americans needs more exercise and to use less energy- is not even close to advocating for living in a rural Indian village.
  - Crake 13y ago
    >There are some benefits to living in a rural Indian village- you get more exercise then I do in my natural habitat. Speak for yourself. My natural habitat has great public transit, so I get my exercise built into my commute.

lozf 13y ago

Written like someone who has no experience of how common power outages are in many parts of India, not to mention the cost / scarcity of what "rich westerners" recognise as a Washing Machine. -- sent from a hut on the beach in Goa.