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I don't think this article is giving enough consideration to what's going on with web application development. JavaScript is the de facto language of the web,

I don't think this article is giving enough consideration to what's going on with web application development. JavaScript is the de facto language of the web, so everyone is using it whether it's the right tool for the job or not. The web is also rapidly evolving its capabilities, so web applications are constantly changing in nature. YAFS is not really the problem, it's a symptom of a massively developed for, single language, massively used platform. I'm sure it's exacerbated a bit by javascript being such a poorly designed language, but this is more minor. The solution isn't "research and mold what's already out there to your problem", because this is only addressing the symptom. There's an explosion of frameworks because there's an explosion of different use cases and application goals on the web. Rather than having to choose between 20 different programming languages, you have to choose between 20 frameworks.

chrisrhoden 13y ago
>There's an explosion of frameworks because there's an explosion of different use cases and application goals on the web. And they receive pull requests for several MVC frameworks each week demonstrating how to build a to do list in a new framework. I don't think that you're talking about the same thing here.
- Jormundir 13y ago
  Perhaps because a to do list is so simple it can be covered by every type of framework, and doesn't warrant using the very features that justify each framework. I agree there's lots of "reinventing the wheel", but I don't think there's as much noise to value as they think.
gtirloni 13y ago
I'm skeptical about all these new frameworks solving uniquely new things. This is not a syndrome of the Javascript community alone but of all IT: we never look to previous solutions and research, and think we are discovering the wheel every day. Be it IT vendors rediscovering "cloud" concepts that were published in the 70's or a JS developer releasing a new framework that he rewrote using more functional idioms because object orientation is so-yesterday. Besides it getting boring for us old farts, it feels exactly how the author describes it: more noise than value.
- kawera 13y ago
  "cloud" concepts that were published in the 70's Not only published, I did use cloud computing in the 70's - we called it time sharing. And our keyval, schemaless databases obviously couldn't be called noSQL before the advent of SQL!
  - briantakita 13y ago
    History has a habit of repeating itself.
  - danellis 13y ago
    Cloud computing and time sharing are not the same thing, though. Time sharing was just a way for multiple people to access the same computer at the same time. In cloud computing, people aren't accessing a particular computer as far as they're concerned; they're accessing a service that's out there somewhere, and they might even have two consecutive requests handled by computers in different data centers.
    - kawera 13y ago
      ...they're accessing a service that's out there somewhere... Exactly what IBM offered in the late 70's.
      - ninkendo 13y ago
        If you want to distill all of what "the cloud" means into just "accessing a service", then sure. Nothing's changed in 40 years because it's all still just "clients" accessing "services". Also, transportation hasn't changed in millenia because we're still just humans moving places, and information retrieval hasn't changed since the invention of the written word, because we're still just absorbing information from glyphs on something that has distinct colors.
        mikeash 13y ago
        He's not saying "hasn't changed". He's just saying that he was using something that could easily be described as "cloud computing" four decades ago.
deleted 13y ago
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sdegutis 13y ago
It's situations like this that make me envy desktop app development. I tried out WPF with XAML the other day and it was so beautifully simple.

chrisrhoden 13y ago

>There's an explosion of frameworks because there's an explosion of different use cases and application goals on the web. And they receive pull requests for several MVC frameworks each week demonstrating how to build a to do list in a new framework. I don't think that you're talking about the same thing here.

Jormundir 13y ago
Perhaps because a to do list is so simple it can be covered by every type of framework, and doesn't warrant using the very features that justify each framework. I agree there's lots of "reinventing the wheel", but I don't think there's as much noise to value as they think.

gtirloni 13y ago

I'm skeptical about all these new frameworks solving uniquely new things. This is not a syndrome of the Javascript community alone but of all IT: we never look to previous solutions and research, and think we are discovering the wheel every day. Be it IT vendors rediscovering "cloud" concepts that were published in the 70's or a JS developer releasing a new framework that he rewrote using more functional idioms because object orientation is so-yesterday. Besides it getting boring for us old farts, it feels exactly how the author describes it: more noise than value.

kawera 13y ago
"cloud" concepts that were published in the 70's Not only published, I did use cloud computing in the 70's - we called it time sharing. And our keyval, schemaless databases obviously couldn't be called noSQL before the advent of SQL!
- briantakita 13y ago
  History has a habit of repeating itself.
- danellis 13y ago
  Cloud computing and time sharing are not the same thing, though. Time sharing was just a way for multiple people to access the same computer at the same time. In cloud computing, people aren't accessing a particular computer as far as they're concerned; they're accessing a service that's out there somewhere, and they might even have two consecutive requests handled by computers in different data centers.
  - kawera 13y ago
    ...they're accessing a service that's out there somewhere... Exactly what IBM offered in the late 70's.
    - ninkendo 13y ago
      If you want to distill all of what "the cloud" means into just "accessing a service", then sure. Nothing's changed in 40 years because it's all still just "clients" accessing "services". Also, transportation hasn't changed in millenia because we're still just humans moving places, and information retrieval hasn't changed since the invention of the written word, because we're still just absorbing information from glyphs on something that has distinct colors.
      - mikeash 13y ago
        He's not saying "hasn't changed". He's just saying that he was using something that could easily be described as "cloud computing" four decades ago.

deleted 13y ago

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sdegutis 13y ago

It's situations like this that make me envy desktop app development. I tried out WPF with XAML the other day and it was so beautifully simple.