3 ms·

If you constantly find yourself looking at new frameworks to save time, reduce boilerplate, make development and debugging easier, you may want to acknowledge t

by runT1ME 13y ago

If you constantly find yourself looking at new frameworks to save time, reduce boilerplate, make development and debugging easier, you may want to acknowledge that it's not the framework at fault, but the language itself...

taeric 13y ago
The reflection may not stop at the language. Many of these "terrible" framework/languages have plenty of folks accomplishing a lot of stuff with them. Not trying to claim that everyone that complains is bad/wrong. Rather, the field often acknowledges that learning a new language can help "learn a new way to think." Seems that sometimes we neglect that one needs to learn the way of thinking for the language/framework they have, and less worrying about the language/framework they wish they had.
- Mandatum 13y ago
  The amount of 'bad/wrong' frameworks that are present in PHP (as an example, don't mean to hate-monger) is astounding. These are usually the 'discontinued' ones that people have gotten used to and find a hard time moving on from, so in some cases I think it is reasonable to look for a new framework rather than continuously hacking their way to the finishing line.
  - krapp 13y ago
    I think every php dev at some point has tried building one. I certainly have. And most shouldn't ever see the light of day.
  - taeric 13y ago
    That may be, but when the rubber hits the floor, you are often better learning to "think in the framework" that you have, than you are trying to reinvent yet again. This can be just as true when considering new frameworks. They may be better, but that doesn't mean you have time for them. And I fully acknowledge that this is an art. Knowing when to consider making a change is a tough piece of knowledge to try and hammer down.
rimantas 13y ago
I think that the problem is not the language. The elephant in the room is DOM. Javascript is just the poor (in the sense, that it has the fate to deal with it) tool we have to manipulate that. All those frameworks and new APIs are just an attempt to put more lipstick on a pig.

by runT1ME 13y ago

taeric 13y ago

The reflection may not stop at the language. Many of these "terrible" framework/languages have plenty of folks accomplishing a lot of stuff with them. Not trying to claim that everyone that complains is bad/wrong. Rather, the field often acknowledges that learning a new language can help "learn a new way to think." Seems that sometimes we neglect that one needs to learn the way of thinking for the language/framework they have, and less worrying about the language/framework they wish they had.

Mandatum 13y ago
The amount of 'bad/wrong' frameworks that are present in PHP (as an example, don't mean to hate-monger) is astounding. These are usually the 'discontinued' ones that people have gotten used to and find a hard time moving on from, so in some cases I think it is reasonable to look for a new framework rather than continuously hacking their way to the finishing line.
- krapp 13y ago
  I think every php dev at some point has tried building one. I certainly have. And most shouldn't ever see the light of day.
- taeric 13y ago
  That may be, but when the rubber hits the floor, you are often better learning to "think in the framework" that you have, than you are trying to reinvent yet again. This can be just as true when considering new frameworks. They may be better, but that doesn't mean you have time for them. And I fully acknowledge that this is an art. Knowing when to consider making a change is a tough piece of knowledge to try and hammer down.

rimantas 13y ago

I think that the problem is not the language. The elephant in the room is DOM. Javascript is just the poor (in the sense, that it has the fate to deal with it) tool we have to manipulate that. All those frameworks and new APIs are just an attempt to put more lipstick on a pig.