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How not following certain direction "destroys" programmer? It is like saying muslims should try to be christians for a year or two. For example I am Java guy (

by qwerta 13y ago

How not following certain direction "destroys" programmer? It is like saying muslims should try to be christians for a year or two. For example I am Java guy (or more precisely JVM guy), it satisfy all my needs. There are new innovative languages, IDEs, databases, concurrency libraries here... It would take multiple lifetimes just to explore small fractions of that. It takes years to get efficient at some platform. Other technology also means changing working habits, libraries, IDE, debugging style... I know C++, PHP, Ruby, JavaScript, Erlang etc are not for me. Not based on some 'religious' arguments, but because I actually investigated it or worked with it at some point. - C++ language is horrible, there is small island around QT, but most code out there is mess. Not much has changed since my school - PHP has reasonable runtime, but code culture is atrocious. - Ruby has horrible runtime, horrible community and code culture even worse than PHP - JavaScript has not changed much since 1999. Sure there is JQuery and HTML5, but it still sucks. - Erlang is interesting, but too alien. Plus it is not usable outside of very narrow specialization.

lostcolony 13y ago
fry meme face Can not tell if serious. C++...most code in any language is a mess. The language being horrible is an opinion. PHP can't comment. Ruby...the community always struck me as a strength for it, honestly. As there are multiple implementations, which are you referring to, exactly? Javascript hasn't changed since 1999 except for jQuery and HTML5? -Really-? Ecmascript 3 (actually, 2; 3 was standardized in December 1999) is the same as 5, and all the libraries and functionality and approaches and ideas are no different than a time when Geocities was a big thing? Erlang is alien (fair, but...that's a reason to be dismissive?) and -not usable outside of (a) very narrow specialization-?! It's extremely usable -except- in a few specializations, which the language site even lists for you.
- qwerta 13y ago
  I am serious. Most people think that learning new languages gives some sort of spiritual enlightenment. But in reality most languages are minefield of legacy problems and hidden traps. The 'boost' or enlightenment usually comes from learning new stuff, not just programming language. Sure if you like some new clearly designed language (Clojure comes to mind) give it try. But do not expect miracles from 20 years old platform. I dont want to argue about languages. All languages have to keep backward compatibility and for outsider Java is strange as well. Lets just say that all of those points are my opinion.
mattfenwick 13y ago
I too cannot tell if this is serious -- but the idea that members of religion X enlighten themselves by learning about religion Y is a very interesting one. Perhaps that would go a long way towards solving the massive amounts of religious intolerance and misunderstanding (as well as FUD, which empowers leaders at the expense of followers) that we have to deal with today.
- qwerta 13y ago
  > members of religion X should try religion Y is a very interesting one Now I can not tell if you are serious. There is pretty bad history with forced conversions. Also in most monotheistic religions it is the worse possible offense to worship other gods.
  - mattfenwick 13y ago
    I'm sorry, but it should be clear from my comment that I was not talking about forced conversions. However, just to avoid any ambiguity, I've edited to try and clarify what I meant.
- lostcolony 13y ago
  Depends what is meant. In terms of try, as in, convert, no, for obvious reasons. If you mean observe, learn from, and attempt to find common ground, obviously. Attend services of religions you don't agree with, in a spirit of curiosity, see what practices you can borrow. I mean, the Catholic Thomas Merton found inspiration in Zen Buddhism, and he found the Zen practices, detached from the Buddhist beliefs, worthwhile.
  - mattfenwick 13y ago
    Yes, obviously. However, just to avoid any ambiguity, I've edited to try and clarify what I meant.
mcphage 13y ago
> I know C++, PHP, Ruby, JavaScript, Erlang etc are not for me. Not based on some 'religious' arguments, but because I actually investigated it or worked with it at some point. > [rest of message filled with religious arguments]

by qwerta 13y ago

lostcolony 13y ago

fry meme face Can not tell if serious. C++...most code in any language is a mess. The language being horrible is an opinion. PHP can't comment. Ruby...the community always struck me as a strength for it, honestly. As there are multiple implementations, which are you referring to, exactly? Javascript hasn't changed since 1999 except for jQuery and HTML5? -Really-? Ecmascript 3 (actually, 2; 3 was standardized in December 1999) is the same as 5, and all the libraries and functionality and approaches and ideas are no different than a time when Geocities was a big thing? Erlang is alien (fair, but...that's a reason to be dismissive?) and -not usable outside of (a) very narrow specialization-?! It's extremely usable -except- in a few specializations, which the language site even lists for you.

qwerta 13y ago
I am serious. Most people think that learning new languages gives some sort of spiritual enlightenment. But in reality most languages are minefield of legacy problems and hidden traps. The 'boost' or enlightenment usually comes from learning new stuff, not just programming language. Sure if you like some new clearly designed language (Clojure comes to mind) give it try. But do not expect miracles from 20 years old platform. I dont want to argue about languages. All languages have to keep backward compatibility and for outsider Java is strange as well. Lets just say that all of those points are my opinion.

mattfenwick 13y ago

I too cannot tell if this is serious -- but the idea that members of religion X enlighten themselves by learning about religion Y is a very interesting one. Perhaps that would go a long way towards solving the massive amounts of religious intolerance and misunderstanding (as well as FUD, which empowers leaders at the expense of followers) that we have to deal with today.

qwerta 13y ago
> members of religion X should try religion Y is a very interesting one Now I can not tell if you are serious. There is pretty bad history with forced conversions. Also in most monotheistic religions it is the worse possible offense to worship other gods.
- mattfenwick 13y ago
  I'm sorry, but it should be clear from my comment that I was not talking about forced conversions. However, just to avoid any ambiguity, I've edited to try and clarify what I meant.
lostcolony 13y ago
Depends what is meant. In terms of try, as in, convert, no, for obvious reasons. If you mean observe, learn from, and attempt to find common ground, obviously. Attend services of religions you don't agree with, in a spirit of curiosity, see what practices you can borrow. I mean, the Catholic Thomas Merton found inspiration in Zen Buddhism, and he found the Zen practices, detached from the Buddhist beliefs, worthwhile.
- mattfenwick 13y ago
  Yes, obviously. However, just to avoid any ambiguity, I've edited to try and clarify what I meant.

mcphage 13y ago

> I know C++, PHP, Ruby, JavaScript, Erlang etc are not for me. Not based on some 'religious' arguments, but because I actually investigated it or worked with it at some point. > [rest of message filled with religious arguments]