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I know Google's policy on this, but I completely understand where the developer is coming from. Google has been taking a collective shit on every developer out

I know Google's policy on this, but I completely understand where the developer is coming from. Google has been taking a collective shit on every developer out of its list of seller countries[0], which is ridiculously short and hasn't been expanded in god knows how long, and even then, there were only a handful of countries added. On Google's page about seller countries they say: "We're working hard to add more countries, but we're unable to provide any guidance on timelines." No, you're fucking not working hard, you added the last ones a year and a half ago. EU countries are missing, for fucks sake. These are countries where Android has 70, 80% of the market, and you're killing any sensible chance of developers making a living on mobile. And you're not allowing any other payment option, because hey, fuck the developers, they don't need to make a living. And then you send me fucking developer feedback polls year after year, which you seemingly throw in the trash, because every single Android dev I know tells you the same damn thing, let us sell apps, everything else is irrelevant. Wake the fuck up Google. [0]https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answer/150324?hl=en https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ... ps. sorry for the language, this has been boiling for more than two years now...

higherpurpose 13y ago
Well I can tell you there's at least one country that has paid apps and isn't in that list, so maybe that list isn't updated either. I think you're right about them not moving fast enough with this, though. They've been historically slow with this since the Android Market days. It also hurt them big time that their own payment option in the early days wasn't popular. Things could've been very different for Android revenue, if they wouldn't have forgotten about Google Checkout for virtually its entire life since they started it. They had to invent a whole new payment system (Wallet) to deal with Android payments, after they almost let Paypal be their default payment solution for the store, because their payment system situation was so incredibly pathetic at the time. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-13/paypal-said-to-be-in-talks-with-google-about-handling-android-payments.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-13/paypal-said-to-be-i... http://www.androidguys.com/2011/11/02/signs-of-paypal-found-inside-new-android-market/ http://www.androidguys.com/2011/11/02/signs-of-paypal-found-...
ucho 13y ago
> Google has been taking a collective shit The biggest issue with anything Google related is absolute lack of communication/transparency. They have been baning web pages from Google AdSense and never told the owners why, without any way to appeal decision. The oracle has spoken, You are not worthy. Take this automatic reply message based on some words from your email.
- jacquesm 13y ago
  > They have been baning web pages from Google AdSense and never told the owners why, without any way to appeal decision. This is actually a huge problem. But google does not care about the supply side, they have plenty of inventory, they only care about the demand side.
- iancarroll 13y ago
  In the suspension notice I received I had a way to appeal it.
  - alextingle 13y ago
    Did it work? In my experience, I fixed the problem they reported, but then they still refused to reinstate the site. I was left playing 20 questions, trying to guess which other policy I might have violated.
    - iancarroll 13y ago
      I didn't bother - it would've taken me over a year to reach the payout threshold.
  - poopsintub 13y ago
    I received a notification in adsense that I was in violation of a policy and clicked the "ok", or "fixed" button when I removed the page. They don't just ban people and walk away unless you plain didn't read the TOS and are breaking big rules like clicking your own ads, doing shady stuff, etc.
RivieraKid 13y ago
> We're working hard to add more countries I hate this bullshit, they've said exactly the same about my country for 3 years before actually adding seller support. They were about 3 years slower than Microsoft and Apple.
- nctime 13y ago
  Also, Windows Phone seems to be the only one to allow IAPs without needing to pay the 30% cut. See section 2.1.2 in http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windowsphone/develop/hh184841(v=vs.105).aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windowsphone/develop... They lay out rules like clarity in showing the product and the payment processor and having PCI-DSS which are good things to protect users. However, this doesn't imply that they won't give in to greed and change the rules midway like Google did if Windows Phone becomes more popular.
  - bennyg 13y ago
    They had to though. You can't come in to an entrenched marketplace and play by the same rules as everyone else when you have 0 traction. They're trying to get any and all developers to start adding to the Windows Phone offerings.
rmrfrmrf 13y ago
> No, you're fucking not working hard, you added the last ones a year and a half ago. I'm not even a Google fanboy, but what do you know about the challenges that Google might be facing? It's a really strong accusation to say that a company is not working hard just because you can't have exactly what you want. Last I checked, neither Google nor Apple make guarantees about how much of a living a developer is going to make from their platforms. You're not getting shit on; you're getting impatient because the gravy train that you're banking on hasn't poured itself all over you. If you want to make money, stop waiting for other people to do the dirty work for you.
- corin_ 13y ago
  Anecdotes like this one do indeed suggest they're not trying as hard as they can: >I hate this bullshit, they've said exactly the same about my country for 3 years before actually adding seller support. They were about 3 years slower than Microsoft and Apple. I actually am a Google fanboy for the record. But it does seem like they just don't care about this.
  - rmrfrmrf 13y ago
    Yes, but Microsoft and Apple have the advantage of having physical products, stores, agreements, etc. in the international market already.
    - panacea 13y ago
      Google seems really flakey. It's a bamboo platform. Discontinued services... a road-map that focusses on creepy glasses, self-driving cars and ditches Motorola for Nest.
    - _djo_ 13y ago
      This isn't a factor. Apple has no offices in South Africa - all retail sales, support, etc are handled through a distributor, Core Group - but local devs can still sell paid apps through the App Store. Google, despite actually having a large-ish local presence, didn't allow the same thing for years. The local office only handled ad sales, it seems.
DigitalSea 13y ago
I couldn't have said it any better myself. In this instance, swearing is not only warranted: it's needed. I feel exactly the same way and have a friend who was burned by this exact policy all due to Google's inability to get off their billion dollar asses and make someone fix the problem.
downandout 13y ago
An expansion may never come. When they created their new policy requiring use of Google Play for all IAP, they could have easily carved out an exception for app teams not based in countries served by their payment system. Anyone bright enough to be hired by Google to write app store policies would have been smart enough to anticipate this scenario. Since Google doesn't make glaring mistakes like this, it was intentional. The only logical conclusion is that Google wants all Android development outside of the countries it has named to cease immediately.
- yohui 13y ago
  > The only logical conclusion is that Google wants all Android development outside of the countries it has named to cease immediately. What would be the motive? More likely they didn't want to risk carving an exception (leading to e.g. scammers taking advantage of the loophole, breaking users' payment expectations, etc.) . Restricting third-party payment methods within a curated store is related to but distinct from the issue at hand: the limited number of countries supported by Google Wallet. For that, lack of experience and/or lethargy is a simpler and sufficient explanation. No need to invent a more complicated theory.
  - yincrash 13y ago
    To clarify, if it was allowed, all someone would have to do is register their app in a country that didn't require Google's IAP, then they wouldn't have to pay Google's 30% cut.
  - downandout 13y ago
    I have no idea what the motive would be. But I do know that without financial incentive, it is difficult to believe that Android development will continue outside of Wallet-supported countries. They could still use in-app banners, but those revenues tend to be abysmally low vs. IAP and in many cases will destroy the user experience. There may be a few people that code them for pleasure or practice in these countries, but if there is no money in it, people will find better things to do.
zrgiu_ 13y ago
I had one of the first 100 apps ever published on Google Play (then called Android Market). After a few months being live, I eventually implemented my own in app purchases using PayPal. Back then Google had no support for any kind of paid apps (only free apps were allowed), and Apple hadn't introduced IAPs. Still, Google removed my app 3 times before I gave up republishing it. Also, in the classic Google style, when I tried to reason with them, I was simply ignored. PS: my country still isn't allowed to sell apps, although it's an EU country. EDIT: I want to add a clarification: Google always had this thing put in Google Play's terms and conditions. It was there when Android Market was unveiled, although another year and a half passed until they slowly started allowing people to sell apps. And they did it knowingly, just to push free apps which have ads as the only way of monetizing. Google IS an advertising company after all (98% of their revenue, right?)
- radley 13y ago
  Obvious question: which country?
  - Anderkent 13y ago
    Unsupported EU countries: Bulgaria Croatia Cyprus Estonia Greece Hungary Latvia Lithuania Luxembourg Malta Romania Slovakia Slovenia
  - zrgiu_ 13y ago
    Romania.
nopakos 13y ago
It's not a coincidence that so many apps are iOS only. For example (I guess that) the recent success app Horizon is iOS only because the developers cannot sell from Greece through the Play store. The same happens for many apps from many countries.
hrjet 13y ago
I can understand your frustration. I am in a country from which you couldn't sell for a long time (but now can). The thing that irked me was, when I signed up for an Android Market developer account there was no indication given to me that I won't be able to sell apps! I spent about two years developing an app and when it was time to publish the paid version, I discovered that I couldn't! That was one hell of a shocker! That was the first time I hated Google.
- alextingle 13y ago
  But not the last, I'll wager.
bent_rayner 13y ago
There's two seperate issues here: First Google doesn't do developer or consumer support. They don't care and whenever they've tried it's been a complete disaster. Second, things that don't directly benefit social are very low priority. The Android team is very secretive about everything they do and hardly ever explains their actions, even internally. There was some hope that things would change with Sundar Pichai but he's a bad as Andy Rubin, if not worse. The way this type of issue is typically solved is by contacting a Google employee and asking them to escalate internally. Don't know any Googler? You're SOL.
netcan 13y ago
It's interesting seeing Google as a grown up company, with many of the flaws they acquired early on still intact and at Google scale. You can be spending $100ks per monthon adwords and still not have a competent person to call when you need help. EVen if you do, they don't know much and can't do much. Realistically, it's not much better than an outsourced call centre and much worse than the far less profitable Big Ads platform. When the Nexus 4 went live, they didn't have anywhere near the stock needed to match demand. If you now want to buy a current nexus phone or tablet, you have to be in a country where they allow purchase. They would deliver a much better customer experience (and sell many more phones) if they just let Amazon handle selling them. They even redirect you away to a sorry page and don't let you see the product page. It all feels very non-native to the internet experience and oddly insulting. Google Wave, Hangouts, Play store (webapps, chrome apps, plugins & android apps) all have bad branding/clarity problems. People just don't understand what these things are, even when they really try. WTF is a hangout? Why does it want to have my SMSs go through it. What is a chrome app? I've heard salespeople in gadget shops assure buyers that any app on their android phone will also be available for their Chromebook. Google don't know how to create the necessary nouns and verbs people can use to understand what these things are. They have a serious tendency towards zombocoms. This is just one more example.
- Pxtl 13y ago
  This. Google needs one Jobsian hard-ass in charge of product marketing/quality to keep this swarm of ADD mayhem under control and set priorities. Around Android 2.3 I was a huge fanboy because the platform had so much potential. Now? The platform still has so much potential, and I'm only a fan because it's an open-source platform with real consumer adoption - not because I think it's actually good. Microsoft shoveled a bunch of cash into the furnace and went from nothing to better in that time.
  - spacemanmatt 13y ago
    That isn't the Google way. The need someone tapping the right data on audience feedback, with the right internal priority to execute on solutions. Because failing your customers is basically evil. We already have enough faceless companies.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
peterashford 13y ago
Get an account in one of the supported countries?

higherpurpose 13y ago

Well I can tell you there's at least one country that has paid apps and isn't in that list, so maybe that list isn't updated either. I think you're right about them not moving fast enough with this, though. They've been historically slow with this since the Android Market days. It also hurt them big time that their own payment option in the early days wasn't popular. Things could've been very different for Android revenue, if they wouldn't have forgotten about Google Checkout for virtually its entire life since they started it. They had to invent a whole new payment system (Wallet) to deal with Android payments, after they almost let Paypal be their default payment solution for the store, because their payment system situation was so incredibly pathetic at the time. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-13/paypal-said-to-be-in-talks-with-google-about-handling-android-payments.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-13/paypal-said-to-be-i... http://www.androidguys.com/2011/11/02/signs-of-paypal-found-inside-new-android-market/ http://www.androidguys.com/2011/11/02/signs-of-paypal-found-...

ucho 13y ago

> Google has been taking a collective shit The biggest issue with anything Google related is absolute lack of communication/transparency. They have been baning web pages from Google AdSense and never told the owners why, without any way to appeal decision. The oracle has spoken, You are not worthy. Take this automatic reply message based on some words from your email.

jacquesm 13y ago
> They have been baning web pages from Google AdSense and never told the owners why, without any way to appeal decision. This is actually a huge problem. But google does not care about the supply side, they have plenty of inventory, they only care about the demand side.
iancarroll 13y ago
In the suspension notice I received I had a way to appeal it.
- alextingle 13y ago
  Did it work? In my experience, I fixed the problem they reported, but then they still refused to reinstate the site. I was left playing 20 questions, trying to guess which other policy I might have violated.
  - iancarroll 13y ago
    I didn't bother - it would've taken me over a year to reach the payout threshold.
- poopsintub 13y ago
  I received a notification in adsense that I was in violation of a policy and clicked the "ok", or "fixed" button when I removed the page. They don't just ban people and walk away unless you plain didn't read the TOS and are breaking big rules like clicking your own ads, doing shady stuff, etc.

RivieraKid 13y ago

> We're working hard to add more countries I hate this bullshit, they've said exactly the same about my country for 3 years before actually adding seller support. They were about 3 years slower than Microsoft and Apple.

nctime 13y ago
Also, Windows Phone seems to be the only one to allow IAPs without needing to pay the 30% cut. See section 2.1.2 in http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windowsphone/develop/hh184841(v=vs.105).aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windowsphone/develop... They lay out rules like clarity in showing the product and the payment processor and having PCI-DSS which are good things to protect users. However, this doesn't imply that they won't give in to greed and change the rules midway like Google did if Windows Phone becomes more popular.
- bennyg 13y ago
  They had to though. You can't come in to an entrenched marketplace and play by the same rules as everyone else when you have 0 traction. They're trying to get any and all developers to start adding to the Windows Phone offerings.

rmrfrmrf 13y ago

> No, you're fucking not working hard, you added the last ones a year and a half ago. I'm not even a Google fanboy, but what do you know about the challenges that Google might be facing? It's a really strong accusation to say that a company is not working hard just because you can't have exactly what you want. Last I checked, neither Google nor Apple make guarantees about how much of a living a developer is going to make from their platforms. You're not getting shit on; you're getting impatient because the gravy train that you're banking on hasn't poured itself all over you. If you want to make money, stop waiting for other people to do the dirty work for you.

corin_ 13y ago
Anecdotes like this one do indeed suggest they're not trying as hard as they can: >I hate this bullshit, they've said exactly the same about my country for 3 years before actually adding seller support. They were about 3 years slower than Microsoft and Apple. I actually am a Google fanboy for the record. But it does seem like they just don't care about this.
- rmrfrmrf 13y ago
  Yes, but Microsoft and Apple have the advantage of having physical products, stores, agreements, etc. in the international market already.
  - panacea 13y ago
    Google seems really flakey. It's a bamboo platform. Discontinued services... a road-map that focusses on creepy glasses, self-driving cars and ditches Motorola for Nest.
  - _djo_ 13y ago
    This isn't a factor. Apple has no offices in South Africa - all retail sales, support, etc are handled through a distributor, Core Group - but local devs can still sell paid apps through the App Store. Google, despite actually having a large-ish local presence, didn't allow the same thing for years. The local office only handled ad sales, it seems.

DigitalSea 13y ago

I couldn't have said it any better myself. In this instance, swearing is not only warranted: it's needed. I feel exactly the same way and have a friend who was burned by this exact policy all due to Google's inability to get off their billion dollar asses and make someone fix the problem.

downandout 13y ago

An expansion may never come. When they created their new policy requiring use of Google Play for all IAP, they could have easily carved out an exception for app teams not based in countries served by their payment system. Anyone bright enough to be hired by Google to write app store policies would have been smart enough to anticipate this scenario. Since Google doesn't make glaring mistakes like this, it was intentional. The only logical conclusion is that Google wants all Android development outside of the countries it has named to cease immediately.

yohui 13y ago
> The only logical conclusion is that Google wants all Android development outside of the countries it has named to cease immediately. What would be the motive? More likely they didn't want to risk carving an exception (leading to e.g. scammers taking advantage of the loophole, breaking users' payment expectations, etc.) . Restricting third-party payment methods within a curated store is related to but distinct from the issue at hand: the limited number of countries supported by Google Wallet. For that, lack of experience and/or lethargy is a simpler and sufficient explanation. No need to invent a more complicated theory.
- yincrash 13y ago
  To clarify, if it was allowed, all someone would have to do is register their app in a country that didn't require Google's IAP, then they wouldn't have to pay Google's 30% cut.
- downandout 13y ago
  I have no idea what the motive would be. But I do know that without financial incentive, it is difficult to believe that Android development will continue outside of Wallet-supported countries. They could still use in-app banners, but those revenues tend to be abysmally low vs. IAP and in many cases will destroy the user experience. There may be a few people that code them for pleasure or practice in these countries, but if there is no money in it, people will find better things to do.

zrgiu_ 13y ago

I had one of the first 100 apps ever published on Google Play (then called Android Market). After a few months being live, I eventually implemented my own in app purchases using PayPal. Back then Google had no support for any kind of paid apps (only free apps were allowed), and Apple hadn't introduced IAPs. Still, Google removed my app 3 times before I gave up republishing it. Also, in the classic Google style, when I tried to reason with them, I was simply ignored. PS: my country still isn't allowed to sell apps, although it's an EU country. EDIT: I want to add a clarification: Google always had this thing put in Google Play's terms and conditions. It was there when Android Market was unveiled, although another year and a half passed until they slowly started allowing people to sell apps. And they did it knowingly, just to push free apps which have ads as the only way of monetizing. Google IS an advertising company after all (98% of their revenue, right?)

radley 13y ago
Obvious question: which country?
- Anderkent 13y ago
  Unsupported EU countries: Bulgaria Croatia Cyprus Estonia Greece Hungary Latvia Lithuania Luxembourg Malta Romania Slovakia Slovenia
- zrgiu_ 13y ago
  Romania.

nopakos 13y ago

It's not a coincidence that so many apps are iOS only. For example (I guess that) the recent success app Horizon is iOS only because the developers cannot sell from Greece through the Play store. The same happens for many apps from many countries.

hrjet 13y ago

I can understand your frustration. I am in a country from which you couldn't sell for a long time (but now can). The thing that irked me was, when I signed up for an Android Market developer account there was no indication given to me that I won't be able to sell apps! I spent about two years developing an app and when it was time to publish the paid version, I discovered that I couldn't! That was one hell of a shocker! That was the first time I hated Google.

alextingle 13y ago
But not the last, I'll wager.

bent_rayner 13y ago

There's two seperate issues here: First Google doesn't do developer or consumer support. They don't care and whenever they've tried it's been a complete disaster. Second, things that don't directly benefit social are very low priority. The Android team is very secretive about everything they do and hardly ever explains their actions, even internally. There was some hope that things would change with Sundar Pichai but he's a bad as Andy Rubin, if not worse. The way this type of issue is typically solved is by contacting a Google employee and asking them to escalate internally. Don't know any Googler? You're SOL.

netcan 13y ago

It's interesting seeing Google as a grown up company, with many of the flaws they acquired early on still intact and at Google scale. You can be spending $100ks per monthon adwords and still not have a competent person to call when you need help. EVen if you do, they don't know much and can't do much. Realistically, it's not much better than an outsourced call centre and much worse than the far less profitable Big Ads platform. When the Nexus 4 went live, they didn't have anywhere near the stock needed to match demand. If you now want to buy a current nexus phone or tablet, you have to be in a country where they allow purchase. They would deliver a much better customer experience (and sell many more phones) if they just let Amazon handle selling them. They even redirect you away to a sorry page and don't let you see the product page. It all feels very non-native to the internet experience and oddly insulting. Google Wave, Hangouts, Play store (webapps, chrome apps, plugins & android apps) all have bad branding/clarity problems. People just don't understand what these things are, even when they really try. WTF is a hangout? Why does it want to have my SMSs go through it. What is a chrome app? I've heard salespeople in gadget shops assure buyers that any app on their android phone will also be available for their Chromebook. Google don't know how to create the necessary nouns and verbs people can use to understand what these things are. They have a serious tendency towards zombocoms. This is just one more example.

Pxtl 13y ago
This. Google needs one Jobsian hard-ass in charge of product marketing/quality to keep this swarm of ADD mayhem under control and set priorities. Around Android 2.3 I was a huge fanboy because the platform had so much potential. Now? The platform still has so much potential, and I'm only a fan because it's an open-source platform with real consumer adoption - not because I think it's actually good. Microsoft shoveled a bunch of cash into the furnace and went from nothing to better in that time.
- spacemanmatt 13y ago
  That isn't the Google way. The need someone tapping the right data on audience feedback, with the right internal priority to execute on solutions. Because failing your customers is basically evil. We already have enough faceless companies.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

peterashford 13y ago

Get an account in one of the supported countries?